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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Stein we're on the para cast this

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week and our co-host Chris O'Brien is on

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special assignment so he won't be with

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us but next week tentatively we'll do a

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special episode about his new book

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called stalking the herd okay that's

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gonna be a fascinating discussion this

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is over 565 pages exploring the cattle

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mutilation phenomenon now we have two

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guests today I'm not going to get into

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that topic except insofar as it's

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covered in a certain magazine they both

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have or now do represent and that is

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fate magazine fate magazine is I guess

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the longest surviving publication about

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the paranormal going back to like 1948

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and the people joining us this week

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Phyllis called II who's the

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editor-in-chief and publisher and my old

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friend Jerome Clark who actually worked

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at fate for a number of years it's kind

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of interesting Jerry how you and I went

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into journalistic related career paths

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after we finished school and I use

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presume we're almost nearly the same age

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which will not be mentioned on the air

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because nobody normally counts that high

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but with me after going to school I went

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into radio and began to specialize in

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journalism but you got associated with

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fate magazine how did that come about

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well when I was a kid my folks and my

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brother and I were on a vacation in

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Black Hills of South Dakota we went into

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a magazine store was actually drugstore

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had quite collection of magazines and

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paperbacks and I saw the November 1960

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issue of fate and I had heard of it

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before but I had never seen it so I

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bought it and I was enthralled I

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subscribed immediately and I had read

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fate

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since November 1960 virtually every

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issue so I have a long history at one

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time I was hired at fate magazine I was

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associate editor and then I became the

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full editor at the senior editor and

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that was just before fate was sold to

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well in publications and Saint Paul and

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that's where Phillips comes into the

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story let's be more detailed about faith

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though how long did you work for them

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before the sale was completed and also I

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guess we never really clarified this you

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were a reader of the magazine how does

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the reader become the employee well I

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started writing for fate in the 1970s in

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the early 1970s so the editorial staff

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and the publisher the name Lee Curtis

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and Mary Margaret for knew who I was

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they knew I could write and so in 1970 I

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moved to Chicago from Moorhead Minnesota

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with a girlfriend and I was looking for

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a job and I said well I'll go and see if

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I can get a job at fate and they hired

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me but my Chicago life lasted only less

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than a year and I moved back to

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Minnesota I was in Chicago in 1976

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neither stood the fuller's and they

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asked me if I was interested in having

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my old job back and I was I moved back

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to Chicago I worked from August 1976 to

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February 1989 so I spent a good chunk of

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my my working life that paid Magazine

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now just to do a comparison I don't know

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there's any place I worked at for 13

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years anywhere no way and not in the

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kind of businesses I've been in you

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don't work 13 years at anything okay we

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don't want to get into the technical

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details but it was possible to make a

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living wage working for a magazine like

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that yeah I was able to support a young

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family you know I have no complaints

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about how mistreated that fuller's are

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very good to me okay so why did they

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sell out the magazine was dying

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basically they circulation

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plumped and Kurt fuller was

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philosophical about he said well fate

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had a pretty good run and nothing lasts

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forever and they but they had hoped to

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sell it to Hugh Hefner who was talking

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about doing a slick and a pop science

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magazine in competition to Bob Guccione

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Omni magazine except that haven't had

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this idea of having a higher you know

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anomaly and paranormal content but by

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the time the floors are ready to sell

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fate magazine Katherine read lost

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interest nobody seemed interested except

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Llewellyn publications and Karl wish he

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was head of it the Fuller's didn't like

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whiskey very much and they didn't want

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to sell to him but finally there was no

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other offer and fate sold into whiskey

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and I think kind of a bargain-basement

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price they just wanted to get off their

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hands and they were lucky to get any

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money for it at that stage now this is

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the late 1980s was there something about

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Llewellyn that made them seem like a

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less than ideal buyer for fate well the

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floors weren't occultist they didn't

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really have much time for you know cold

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doctrines theosophy magic and those

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sorts of things I mean they had

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advertisers over coins or debt but Kurt

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fuller actually came from a science

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background he just major interest in

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life a science and I think that he saw

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anomalies in the paranormal as things on

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the fringes of science as opposed to the

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heart of the occult and they thought

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that a lot of what whisky was doing was

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just junk and they didn't really want

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fate to go in that direction and they

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wanted some kind of you know restraint

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on the content so that it didn't go too

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far to the extremes that it was Mary

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Fuller's always used to say to tell me

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she said we don't have to believe it

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ourselves but it has to be capable of

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belief that was her editorial philosophy

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well-meaning therefore that has to be

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something that at least sounds credible

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it's a theory that's well research first

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and early okay now after the purchase

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took place

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now you're no longer associated with

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them did the magazine go further

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downhill or what well I believe that to

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fill us to address well Phyllis you've

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now been called into action so Phyllis

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called II currently the one owns the

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publication what happened with fade

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after Llewellyn took it over well that

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was an interesting time I was hired I

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think about 85 or 86 at the well and as

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a book editor and there was all kinds of

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hubbub and excitement and driving down

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to Chicago

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Donald Michael Craig was the first

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editor-in-chief under the Llewellyn

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ownership of fate and I remember the

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excitement as a new editor book editor

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probably the only one that's a small

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time of Llewellyn I was so excited I

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wanted to work on faith I like begged

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tools to be an editor for it I wrote her

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first article about elephants about

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their psychic abilities or how intuitive

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they are yeah I was just just a lot of

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excitement and Karl whiskey always

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wanted a magazine he loved magazines but

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kind of he had bad luck with the

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previous magazines occult the Gnostic on

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and and similar kinds of magazines but

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anyway it was great excitement and I

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finally got to be an editor and moved

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over working and on the Fate part of it

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rather than the book part of it and both

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Don Craig and I were tried to be very

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careful to keep fake pure Karl wanted

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that this be an advertorial for

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Llewellyn books and you know and and

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turned it in that direction but I have

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to say that both Don and I were were

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really clear in our intent that that it

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should stay mostly true to its its

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origin so yeah we had a few fights on

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our hands and tried to be diplomatic and

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and finally we got quite a bit of

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control over the editorial content so we

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we tried to keep it clean and

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and of course Jerry was still writing

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column we had four or five different

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columns at that time and yes it

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continued to lose money

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Llewelyn lavished a lot of money on it

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that they spent poorly I mean they gave

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this one designer $10,000 just to make a

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new local on the front page let's go

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into more of that $10,000 for the logo

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$10,000 for the logo how about that

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Phyllis called E from fate magazine

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Jerome Clark formerly from fate magazine

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[Music]

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ingredients has no preservatives and is

274
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dairy soy wheat and gluten-free Pro em1

275
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is the key to your digestive health

276
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order Pro am one daily probiotic lens at

277
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Tarragona comm spelled ter AGA and IX

278
00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:48,829
com or call toll free 866 three six nine

279
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three six seven eight that's eight six

280
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six three six nine three six seven eight

281
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also available through Amazon Prime Pro

282
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em1 from Teheran annex life's getting

283
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better

284
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[Music]

285
00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:03,540
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

286
00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:05,550
comment or question about the para cast

287
00:14:12,770 --> 00:14:09,240
sent it to news at the para cast com

288
00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:12,780
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

289
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:14,940
don't forget to visit our famous para

290
00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:18,120
cast community forums at forum dot the

291
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:22,230
para cast comm you know Phyllis called e

292
00:14:26,540 --> 00:14:23,760
does such a good job

293
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:26,550
saying the para cast we may have to add

294
00:14:31,310 --> 00:14:28,890
her to our special recording where we're

295
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,320
going this feature just the people who

296
00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:33,360
do it so well like Nick Redfern and

297
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:36,540
Bryce Sabol and Phyllis called e and a

298
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:39,810
few others and Chris Chris has the

299
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:41,250
number of different voices he does it

300
00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:43,650
with we're talking primarily about faith

301
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:45,000
magazine about the history of

302
00:14:49,850 --> 00:14:48,570
publication the ups and the downs and

303
00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:49,860
we're getting more into the modern

304
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:52,260
history in a while so Phyllis before we

305
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:55,110
broke you're telling us here that the

306
00:15:00,620 --> 00:14:57,450
folks at Llewellyn were not above

307
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:00,630
investing in fate but they really didn't

308
00:15:07,010 --> 00:15:03,600
know how to invest in it like spending

309
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:07,020
ten thousand dollars a new logo but what

310
00:15:11,510 --> 00:15:09,540
about promotion of the magazine I'm

311
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:11,520
sorry I didn't catch your last Thank You

312
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:15,530
sure what about just promotion promotion

313
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:18,600
and they really thought that fate would

314
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:20,370
have a wonderful future on the newsstand

315
00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:22,260
which is why they spent the money for a

316
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:23,820
new flashy logo

317
00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:26,790
yeah they dumped quite a bit of money on

318
00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:31,740
it it was it was a toy for Carl and it

319
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:34,260
still had some pretty decent articles

320
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:35,970
and by the way Jerry was still writing

321
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:38,490
his column as I mentioned and and Jerry

322
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,370
is still doing the the most intelligent

323
00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:43,440
book review we have in the book review

324
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:45,870
section so Jerry mr. Clark is still

325
00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:49,410
involved with fate we were honored to

326
00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:51,720
have him helping us because he is the

327
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,030
voice of reason and and wisdom and

328
00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:56,160
discernment and knows more about the

329
00:16:00,380 --> 00:15:57,480
books than anybody else

330
00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:00,390
well his whopping compliment Phyllis let

331
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:03,150
me say that I really admire what you're

332
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:05,490
doing and one thing that many people

333
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:07,890
associate was Llewellyn didn't get that

334
00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:12,240
you did was what made and make Spade and

335
00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:15,180
shilling magazine and your fate and

336
00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:18,660
under your editorship really carries on

337
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:21,720
that tradition honorably and it's an

338
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,600
honor for me to be in every issue with

339
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:27,180
my book reviews I really like being

340
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:29,310
there and like being able to make some

341
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:31,380
contribution to the well-being of the

342
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:34,410
magazine well we appreciate it very very

343
00:16:39,769 --> 00:16:37,680
much they're investing in getting more

344
00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:39,779
newsstand distribution now I know

345
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:41,459
something about the other end of it

346
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:42,660
because I've worked with other

347
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:44,910
publishers who have newsstand magazines

348
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:48,450
and the one thing we all learn is unless

349
00:16:54,850 --> 00:16:51,570
you have humongous amounts of money to

350
00:16:57,889 --> 00:16:54,860
get special presentation and placement

351
00:17:00,620 --> 00:16:57,899
it's a very difficult place to try

352
00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:00,630
exactly and it was the beginning of the

353
00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:02,940
downfall the Golden Age was over for

354
00:17:08,439 --> 00:17:05,670
magazines as we know so many have have

355
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:08,449
crashed during the last 10 to 15 years

356
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:11,850
so state didn't have that kind of money

357
00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:15,089
to have that premium placement and then

358
00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:17,819
I think Sandra Carlos wife finally

359
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:20,220
prevailed upon him to sell the magazine

360
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:23,370
and anyway I had quit to start my own

361
00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:27,600
publishing company in 94 I was working

362
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:29,790
on my own publishing book publishing

363
00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:33,450
company then in 1999 sander West he

364
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,670
called David Godwin my partner and

365
00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:37,440
myself to come back and help while they

366
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:39,630
were in the process of trying to sell it

367
00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:42,450
so we said sure we'll do it so David and

368
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:44,070
I came in there and then I saw the

369
00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:47,370
incredible waste just like a quarter of

370
00:17:52,790 --> 00:17:48,950
a million dollars they were spending on

371
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:52,800
payroll and and extra people unnecessary

372
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:55,710
people and and huge wages for

373
00:18:00,680 --> 00:17:58,320
advertising people so I said get rid of

374
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,690
everybody fire everybody David and I can

375
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:03,360
do this for you for so yeah we saved him

376
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:05,490
probably $200,000 for a couple of years

377
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:07,890
and then that they still decided that

378
00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:10,710
they were wanting to sell it and I guess

379
00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:13,620
it was fate they they offered me so the

380
00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:17,070
bank and I bought it and I remember

381
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:19,080
walking out of the building that day

382
00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:21,450
after I had signed the papers Curt and

383
00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:24,870
Mary fuller had both passed on into the

384
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:27,960
spirit world at that time and I'm kind

385
00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:30,450
of a crack psychic I call myself

386
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:33,480
sometimes I see in here and and and feel

387
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:36,480
things but I I could definitely feel and

388
00:18:42,350 --> 00:18:40,110
almost see Mary and Kurt fuller above me

389
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:42,360
and they were scolding me I thought

390
00:18:47,090 --> 00:18:44,370
they'd be glad I bought it because my

391
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:47,100
intentions were really pure to keep

392
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:49,860
faith true to its its essence of what it

393
00:18:55,010 --> 00:18:52,860
was and they were similar kind of

394
00:18:57,530 --> 00:18:55,020
chattering and scolding and almost

395
00:19:00,350 --> 00:18:57,540
swearing at me but you know that I had

396
00:19:02,690 --> 00:19:00,360
better do a good job on paid by gum or

397
00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:02,700
else so I just thought that was cool

398
00:19:06,409 --> 00:19:04,590
instead of them being I was I was like

399
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:06,419
taken aback because here I was trying to

400
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:08,910
do my very best and I was getting

401
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:11,490
scolded for it from spirit okay so you

402
00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:13,350
were getting the impression that they

403
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:16,919
were basically putting you on notice

404
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:19,919
that you better do it right yes yes they

405
00:19:24,260 --> 00:19:21,150
weren't happy with the direction

406
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:24,270
Llewellyn had taken it okay so having

407
00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:26,250
taken over this publication look at into

408
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:28,470
more granular details in a moment what

409
00:19:32,659 --> 00:19:30,360
did you do to try to restore it to its

410
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:32,669
former glory well we didn't do any

411
00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:35,280
advertorials no you know obviously we

412
00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:38,070
were working on a shoestring budget it

413
00:19:42,919 --> 00:19:39,929
was a labor of love I mean they

414
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:42,929
mortgaged the house to keep it going and

415
00:19:47,180 --> 00:19:45,210
plowed everything that that we had our

416
00:19:51,169 --> 00:19:47,190
resources David and I did it just the

417
00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:51,179
two of us and and it's kind of

418
00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:54,980
interesting to me fate seems that it

419
00:20:00,440 --> 00:19:58,200
directs itself it writes itself like say

420
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,450
we get three or four articles and on

421
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:02,400
crop circles that would just come across

422
00:20:07,790 --> 00:20:06,450
the transom letters and and on ask for

423
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:07,800
articles unsolicited

424
00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:10,050
nice then I figured oh I guess we'd

425
00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:12,300
better write about crop circles so it's

426
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:15,660
interesting if if I listen carefully and

427
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:19,650
and pay attention the magazine almost

428
00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:22,650
writes itself the appropriate articles

429
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:24,030
come in through the door so it's a

430
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,080
matter of being in tune with thee I

431
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:30,480
don't know the Oversoul the personality

432
00:20:34,899 --> 00:20:33,630
of fate it has some kind of magical

433
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:34,909
beings

434
00:20:38,419 --> 00:20:37,080
guiding it because it helps so many

435
00:20:40,249 --> 00:20:38,429
people and

436
00:20:43,489 --> 00:20:40,259
daughter said get rid of fade you know

437
00:20:47,239 --> 00:20:43,499
Sonny get rid of it salad and and I I

438
00:20:49,609 --> 00:20:47,249
just never wanted to do that I felt that

439
00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:49,619
was part of my life's mission we

440
00:20:53,779 --> 00:20:51,960
received so many letters from people I

441
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,789
can't live without my fate you know I

442
00:20:57,799 --> 00:20:55,799
get it I read it from cover to cover I

443
00:21:00,350 --> 00:20:57,809
don't care if it's late as long as I get

444
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:00,360
it we hear that over and over and over

445
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,940
okay so let's look now at trying to cope

446
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:05,039
in this environment because right now we

447
00:21:10,460 --> 00:21:07,529
have a situation where print magazines

448
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:10,470
are dying most recently UFO magazine

449
00:21:15,649 --> 00:21:13,710
gave up the ghosts as they say but it's

450
00:21:17,539 --> 00:21:15,659
much more complicated and I hardly even

451
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:17,549
want to mention that except that it's

452
00:21:21,499 --> 00:21:19,289
another publication an example of

453
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:21,509
something it's no longer available have

454
00:21:27,169 --> 00:21:23,369
you thoughtful lifts up just going all

455
00:21:29,539 --> 00:21:27,179
digital we have digital also we have I

456
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:29,549
guess I'm kind of committed I have

457
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:32,129
cleaned it down to bare bones I put it

458
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:34,590
on newsprint paper we went black and

459
00:21:39,859 --> 00:21:37,440
white we made it a lighter paper so that

460
00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:39,869
way I could afford the postage I done

461
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:43,619
everything I can to shave cost to make

462
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:47,129
it affordable for the royal print

463
00:21:51,409 --> 00:21:49,590
subscribers I mean many of them are an

464
00:21:53,629 --> 00:21:51,419
older crowd they don't even have a

465
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:53,639
freaking computer they don't want to

466
00:21:58,909 --> 00:21:56,730
read it online they have no way of so we

467
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,919
have assured them that we will always

468
00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:00,720
have a print edition

469
00:22:06,919 --> 00:22:04,740
I grew up in a Scandinavian household in

470
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,929
North Dakota on a farm and we were

471
00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:09,360
practical if nothing else we made do

472
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:10,529
with what we had

473
00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:14,129
so I guess my little Scotch Irish blood

474
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:16,950
in me too helps where as risky as I

475
00:22:22,609 --> 00:22:19,830
possibly can be to keep it in print and

476
00:22:25,159 --> 00:22:22,619
yes we have a wonderful new website and

477
00:22:26,899 --> 00:22:25,169
we have subscribers and we are

478
00:22:29,419 --> 00:22:26,909
encouraging these subscribers because

479
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:29,429
it's beautiful and full-color and easy

480
00:22:35,389 --> 00:22:32,369
to read but but we have those diehard

481
00:22:37,789 --> 00:22:35,399
people that that are I can't let them

482
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:37,799
down Phyllis called via fate magazine

483
00:22:47,149 --> 00:22:40,440
Jerome Clark also joining us more to

484
00:22:53,489 --> 00:22:50,940
great minds think alike the network for

485
00:22:58,649 --> 00:22:53,499
the independent-minded the genesis

486
00:23:00,720 --> 00:22:58,659
communications network G C n attack of

487
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,730
the Rockets has been well-received by

488
00:23:05,099 --> 00:23:03,039
critics and readers alike it's a thrill

489
00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:05,109
a minute story you'll never forget a

490
00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:07,480
former US military intelligence officer

491
00:23:12,629 --> 00:23:10,119
is haunted by intense dreams about a

492
00:23:15,019 --> 00:23:12,639
beautiful woman pleading for his help

493
00:23:17,609 --> 00:23:15,029
after a terrible battle in outer space

494
00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:17,619
but the dreams turned out to be true and

495
00:23:22,289 --> 00:23:19,929
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

496
00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:22,299
with a woman whose faraway planet is

497
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:25,539
intent on destroying the earth and now

498
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:27,730
the gripping tale continues in the

499
00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:30,460
coming of the protectors it's the second

500
00:23:35,070 --> 00:23:33,190
book of the rock oyster elegy a galaxy

501
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:35,080
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

502
00:23:39,899 --> 00:23:37,809
heroes against powerful fanatical

503
00:23:42,779 --> 00:23:39,909
enemies that threaten the lives of

504
00:23:45,299 --> 00:23:42,789
freedom loving beings everywhere attack

505
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:45,309
of the rock ODEs and the coming of the

506
00:23:51,419 --> 00:23:48,159
protectors classic science fiction at

507
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:51,429
its best available now for more details

508
00:24:00,989 --> 00:23:55,330
visit rejoice calm that's our Ock o

509
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:00,999
ideas calm we all know that murky water

510
00:24:05,009 --> 00:24:02,799
purification systems are the most

511
00:24:07,049 --> 00:24:05,019
trusted name in water filtration as an

512
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:07,059
authorized Berkey dealer for over 6

513
00:24:09,659 --> 00:24:08,769
years in serving thousands of satisfied

514
00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:09,669
customers

515
00:24:14,249 --> 00:24:12,070
the Berkey guy offers amazing specials

516
00:24:15,869 --> 00:24:14,259
for berkey water filtration systems the

517
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:15,879
murky light systems include a set of

518
00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:17,919
self-sterilizing and re cleanable black

519
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:19,899
purification elements that purify water

520
00:24:24,539 --> 00:24:22,330
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

521
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:24,549
cysts and parasites to non detectable

522
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:26,769
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

523
00:24:30,659 --> 00:24:28,809
as herbicides and pesticides order the

524
00:24:33,330 --> 00:24:30,669
Berkey light system today complete with

525
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:33,340
two black per key elements for only 231

526
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:35,289
dollars and the burka guy will ship your

527
00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:37,210
order free of charge with the purchase

528
00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:39,340
of a Berkey light the burka guy is also

529
00:24:44,190 --> 00:24:41,320
offering a set of fluoride and arsenic

530
00:24:45,659 --> 00:24:44,200
filters for only $39.99 that's over 30

531
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:45,669
percent off the retail price

532
00:24:50,129 --> 00:24:47,980
call the burqa guy at one eight seventy

533
00:24:52,349 --> 00:24:50,139
seven eight eight six three six five

534
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:52,359
three that's one eight seven seven eight

535
00:24:57,870 --> 00:24:55,210
eight six three six five three or order

536
00:25:00,480 --> 00:24:57,880
online at NGO Berkey comm bets go Berkey

537
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:00,490
comm today hi this is Steve Sanchez and

538
00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:02,169
based on a recent study it was found

539
00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:04,630
that 57 million Americans had legal

540
00:25:08,639 --> 00:25:06,460
issues over the last 12 months but only

541
00:25:10,769 --> 00:25:08,649
60% of those studied sought out the

542
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:10,779
services of a lawyer who I and a

543
00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:13,090
nutshell affordability while my friends

544
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545
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546
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547
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548
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549
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550
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551
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552
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:31,960
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553
00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:34,210
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554
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:36,100
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555
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,080
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556
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557
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558
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559
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560
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:53,529
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561
00:25:59,610 --> 00:25:57,010
LS protection calm results will vary

562
00:26:01,230 --> 00:25:59,620
from case to case it's no secret that

563
00:26:03,149 --> 00:26:01,240
silver is one of the oldest known

564
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:03,159
natural antibiotics but the mainstream

565
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:05,350
media will never tell We the People this

566
00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:07,840
information why many drug companies and

567
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:09,640
politicians have dangerous alliances

568
00:26:13,169 --> 00:26:11,529
that manipulate the way we live by

569
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:13,179
prescribing drugs that only manage

570
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:15,279
disease keeping us dependent on Big

571
00:26:18,930 --> 00:26:16,960
Pharma and with Obama care at our

572
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:18,940
doorstep we are now forced into a system

573
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:20,770
that many of us do not want any part of

574
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,690
and no man or government has the right

575
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:24,880
to dictate how we as free people choose

576
00:26:28,529 --> 00:26:26,110
to take care of our health

577
00:26:30,450 --> 00:26:28,539
the Patriots at Utopia silver calm hold

578
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:30,460
this truth dear colloidal and ionic

579
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580
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:34,330
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581
00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:36,010
world of natural healing for the body

582
00:26:39,450 --> 00:26:37,000
and the mind

583
00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:39,460
visit utopia silver calm and discover

584
00:26:43,649 --> 00:26:41,350
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585
00:26:45,389 --> 00:26:43,659
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586
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:45,399
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587
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:47,049
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588
00:26:51,630 --> 00:26:49,090
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589
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:51,640
to the Patriots at utopia silver calm a

590
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,440
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591
00:27:00,370 --> 00:26:55,360
colloidal silver colloidal gold minerals

592
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:03,919
hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

593
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:06,809
in to the para cast let me tell you what

594
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:09,179
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

595
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:12,690
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

596
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:16,080
that George Noory so Chris O'Brien's on

597
00:27:19,789 --> 00:27:18,330
special assignment and he'll be back

598
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:19,799
next week and we'll be doing a special

599
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,170
episode about his book called stalking

600
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:24,480
the herd but right now we're focusing on

601
00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:26,490
fake magazine which first started in

602
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:30,630
1948 and now being published by Phyllis

603
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:32,970
called E is continuing as a print

604
00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:35,730
magazine but also as a digital

605
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,790
publication now obviously there aren't

606
00:27:44,419 --> 00:27:40,559
many people around who started reading

607
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:44,429
fate in 1948 and we understand that but

608
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:46,610
do you find that your audience

609
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:49,110
demographic is remaining older how do

610
00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:51,960
you get young people tell us to want a

611
00:27:58,010 --> 00:27:54,750
magazine like fate well we are on a lot

612
00:28:01,100 --> 00:27:58,020
of radio shows and we were starting fate

613
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:01,110
radio up again we've had various radio

614
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:04,020
announcers through the years so we

615
00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:06,690
definitely have exposure we attend

616
00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:09,660
conferences we send out many many issues

617
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:13,470
for people who haven't heard of fate I

618
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:18,240
would say we have a fair exposure in the

619
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:21,419
metaphysical and new-age and UFO world

620
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:24,780
with with States presence let's go back

621
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,260
to the beginning again and Jerry Clark

622
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:31,440
now looking at fate through the years

623
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:34,530
it's always been a mixed bag of

624
00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:37,970
different stuff sometimes you get into

625
00:28:44,030 --> 00:28:40,590
archaeologically related stuff ancient

626
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:44,040
astronauts UFOs various occult issues

627
00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:48,210
now how do you straddle the fence about

628
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:51,270
all those different subjects how did

629
00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:54,090
fate handle it in a way that the people

630
00:28:59,900 --> 00:28:56,820
who just want UFOs can pick up that

631
00:29:02,000 --> 00:28:59,910
magazine see someone who is talking

632
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:02,010
about ghosts but not be turned off well

633
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:04,950
in those days there really were not any

634
00:29:09,290 --> 00:29:07,350
other outlets for people who were

635
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:09,300
interested in this subject and I mean

636
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:11,610
obviously there were as you all know

637
00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:12,250
small

638
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:14,590
newsletters and things like that that

639
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:16,330
circulated to you know a few hundred

640
00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:19,840
readers but there wasn't the television

641
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:22,030
programming wasn't the radio program I

642
00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:24,220
mean newspapers didn't pay much

643
00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:25,960
attention to these things except the

644
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:29,020
publish an occasional sneering article

645
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:30,640
you know if you were interested in these

646
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:33,190
things you can find a few books but if

647
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:35,050
you want a magazine they kept you up to

648
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:36,910
date and what was going on in a broad

649
00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:39,730
range of mysterious phenomena fate

650
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:42,700
magazine was where you had to go for one

651
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:44,530
thing people were interested in UFOs

652
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:48,010
also often had an interest in a wide

653
00:29:54,990 --> 00:29:52,630
range of weird stuff like ESP or ghosts

654
00:29:58,050 --> 00:29:55,000
or cryptozoological animals or

655
00:30:01,730 --> 00:29:58,060
mysterious disappearances those sorts of

656
00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:01,740
things so if someone had a primary

657
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:05,020
subject that he was interested in he

658
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:06,850
could find that but he could also find

659
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:08,650
all kinds of things that that person had

660
00:30:14,790 --> 00:30:12,610
a secondary interest in so and also even

661
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:14,800
if you were just interested in UFOs are

662
00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:16,930
just interested in crypto as well -

663
00:30:22,110 --> 00:30:19,900
you're just interested in ghosts you

664
00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:22,120
could find that in bait magazine and you

665
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:23,920
couldn't find it anywhere else so even

666
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,080
if you didn't read anything else you

667
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:28,480
read the articles on the subject of your

668
00:30:33,660 --> 00:30:31,210
particular interest so fate was you know

669
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:33,670
filled of the real hole in the market

670
00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:35,770
back in those days there just wasn't any

671
00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:36,340
where else to go

672
00:30:43,230 --> 00:30:39,070
at the beginning here fate was founded

673
00:30:46,350 --> 00:30:43,240
by Ray Palmer and Curtis fuller now we

674
00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:46,360
know that mr. fuller had a pretty

675
00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:49,150
scientific bent we know Palmer can get

676
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:52,600
out there how was this handled in the

677
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:55,750
early days when you had two publishers

678
00:30:59,850 --> 00:30:57,970
who probably had very different ideas of

679
00:31:01,950 --> 00:30:59,860
the kind of content they might have

680
00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:01,960
wanted well the early days it was all

681
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:04,870
rape Almer Kurt Fuller was dealing with

682
00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:08,230
his wife Mary who had tuberculosis was

683
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:11,680
in a tuberculosis sanitarium the head to

684
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:14,230
small children and so Kurt was working

685
00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:17,410
at flying magazine as the editor and he

686
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:20,350
was doing that full-time at the same

687
00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:23,290
time being you know full-time father and

688
00:31:27,420 --> 00:31:25,720
caregiver to these little kids

689
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:27,430
while dealing with his wife's issues

690
00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:29,890
while she was in the sanitarium so he

691
00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:32,190
had turned feet over pretty much

692
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:36,220
entirely to the palmar which is and in

693
00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:38,110
much of what was written in those early

694
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:39,940
issues maybe the first couple of years

695
00:31:46,350 --> 00:31:43,330
first three years was palmar under a

696
00:31:49,530 --> 00:31:46,360
variety of pseudonyms and some of the

697
00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:49,540
stories I think Palmer just made up and

698
00:31:55,170 --> 00:31:51,400
he published them under made-up names

699
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,180
and the factional content was zero well

700
00:32:00,600 --> 00:31:58,000
I was working at fate I went through the

701
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:00,610
files of the early years of the magazine

702
00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:04,240
and in the later years if you want to

703
00:32:08,490 --> 00:32:06,190
find out where a story came from you

704
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:08,500
could read the documentation the

705
00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:10,720
correspondence with the writer and and

706
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:13,720
other supporting evidence there was zero

707
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:16,870
from those early days there was no

708
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,050
evidence that these things existed as

709
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:22,720
independent entities outside Palmer's

710
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,950
imagination and when Kurt became more

711
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:29,200
actively involved in the magazine and

712
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:32,290
married health was restored both Curt

713
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:33,670
and Mary had journalistic background

714
00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:35,530
they had both been educated and

715
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,270
journalism Department Northwestern

716
00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:39,760
University in Evanston Illinois it's

717
00:32:45,870 --> 00:32:42,940
pretty classy outfit so they were

718
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:45,880
concerned that even though the content

719
00:32:51,030 --> 00:32:47,710
from many people's points of view was

720
00:32:56,340 --> 00:32:51,040
outlandish they wanted to be factually

721
00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:56,350
founded and plausibly affirmed and so

722
00:33:02,340 --> 00:32:58,990
for example they didn't publish I think

723
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:02,350
very early on during the Palmer years I

724
00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:04,570
think there was an article about the

725
00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:07,480
shaver mystery which was this outlandish

726
00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:10,300
series of stories told by Richard shaver

727
00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:12,580
who had spent years in the mental

728
00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:14,980
institution but claimed that there were

729
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:17,590
these demonic entities living in caverns

730
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:19,510
under the earth and causing all kinds of

731
00:33:25,650 --> 00:33:22,210
trouble for us this was really where

732
00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:25,660
Palmer made his mark as a marketeer of

733
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:29,980
weird stories there was one shaver

734
00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:33,520
mystery story under Palmer's editorship

735
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:36,790
of faith there were none afterwards the

736
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:39,000
floors cleaned out

737
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:42,830
some of the really you know crazy and

738
00:33:48,770 --> 00:33:47,010
hard to believe stuff and the stuff they

739
00:33:50,660 --> 00:33:48,780
told they wanted some kind of

740
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,670
documentation it wasn't on the New

741
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:53,880
Yorker level but they insisted on

742
00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:56,220
affidavits when particularly when people

743
00:34:02,630 --> 00:33:58,080
were claiming you know their own

744
00:34:04,550 --> 00:34:02,640
experience you know phenomena and you

745
00:34:06,770 --> 00:34:04,560
know so it was reasonably factual

746
00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:06,780
Fuller's often told me that they had a

747
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:09,899
strong feeling that their readers didn't

748
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:13,649
want to be insulted that the readers had

749
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:16,320
to feel that fate was playing by the

750
00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:18,149
rules and was respecting their

751
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:21,240
intelligence I think that really had a

752
00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:23,970
lot to do with giving fade-in

753
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:27,960
credibility in its readership other

754
00:34:33,590 --> 00:34:31,200
magazines didn't do that and they didn't

755
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:33,600
last as long as they did all right now

756
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:36,899
at what point did the Fuller's assert

757
00:34:40,460 --> 00:34:38,730
the controls did this mean that

758
00:34:41,619 --> 00:34:40,470
basically Palmer was out of the picture

759
00:34:47,570 --> 00:34:41,629
or what

760
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:47,580
Palmer moved up to up to I can't

761
00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:49,020
remember the name of County but he moved

762
00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:52,740
up into this kind of recreational area

763
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:55,740
in Wisconsin Portage County they moved

764
00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:57,210
up the party to County which is kind of

765
00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:01,080
a touristy area and they lived in near a

766
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:04,040
little tiny town called Amherst and

767
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:07,110
Palmer concentrate is sort of on being a

768
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:10,200
small-town businessman and the fuller

769
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:13,530
state in suburban Chicago and they were

770
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:16,470
running the operation and at some point

771
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:21,410
about 1954-55 they bought

772
00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:24,240
Palmer's interest in the magazines so

773
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:26,100
Palmer had after that point had no

774
00:35:30,350 --> 00:35:28,410
association you know you didn't edit

775
00:35:34,670 --> 00:35:30,360
Oriole cider on the business side good

776
00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:34,680
fate now as a practical matter once

777
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:36,390
Palmer was out of the picture that sales

778
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:40,880
go up was there some noticeable impact

779
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:44,220
well the magazine I can't give you sales

780
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:46,290
figures because that really wasn't part

781
00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:49,410
of the normal discourse at the office we

782
00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:50,200
were just trying to get

783
00:35:54,420 --> 00:35:52,780
issue out there in any conversation

784
00:35:57,420 --> 00:35:54,430
about the history of the magazine was

785
00:35:59,820 --> 00:35:57,430
you know extraneous although we had

786
00:36:04,550 --> 00:35:59,830
those occasional conversational sites

787
00:36:08,370 --> 00:36:04,560
but the magazine began as a quarterly by

788
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:08,380
1951 I believe is it become bimonthly

789
00:36:13,410 --> 00:36:11,620
and then soon it was a monthly so that

790
00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:13,420
was anything that has found an audience

791
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:14,920
and there was not to support a

792
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:18,250
publication every month now I recall

793
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:21,370
that Palmer had his own group of

794
00:36:27,390 --> 00:36:25,030
magazines one of which was almost a

795
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:27,400
direct on competitor to fate called

796
00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:30,400
search will go into more of this stuff

797
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:32,920
we have Jerome Clarke Phyllis called e

798
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:35,230
and will be answering your questions

799
00:36:42,110 --> 00:36:47,330
[Music]

800
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:49,550
not just an alternative to the

801
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,160
mainstream media we're the premier

802
00:37:01,490 --> 00:36:54,480
independent talk radio network

803
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:01,500
we are G C n is there a secret UFO

804
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:04,290
agenda to stranged creatures from the

805
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:06,660
darkest corners of the mind roam the

806
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:09,030
earth is there evidence for mind control

807
00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:12,210
time travel or devious government

808
00:37:17,780 --> 00:37:15,270
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

809
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:17,790
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

810
00:37:22,010 --> 00:37:20,370
activity and important phenomena when

811
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,020
you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

812
00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:24,960
conspiracy girl it's jam-packed with

813
00:37:30,620 --> 00:37:27,990
stories special book and DVD promotions

814
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:30,630
and the best news is absolutely free

815
00:37:37,010 --> 00:37:34,110
step right to your mailbox plus a bonus

816
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:37,020
free email newsletter sent out every

817
00:37:43,310 --> 00:37:39,930
Friday simply send an email with your

818
00:37:48,860 --> 00:37:43,320
name and address to Mister UFO at what

819
00:37:52,490 --> 00:37:48,870
TV net attached mr. UFO at web TV net

820
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find out what they don't want you to

821
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822
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823
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829
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830
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840
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841
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843
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845
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851
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852
00:39:11,579 --> 00:39:08,910
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853
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854
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855
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860
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865
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867
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869
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870
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873
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:02,780
hello its Tom Shean up from the top

874
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:04,680
Chennault show we are experts in

875
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:06,930
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876
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:08,940
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877
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878
00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:13,770
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879
00:40:18,620 --> 00:40:16,230
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880
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881
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882
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883
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885
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886
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887
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:36,150
to you all you need to do is call this

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893
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894
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:04,400
[Music]

895
00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:07,680
this is kurt 7 the author of us on this

896
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:10,260
reading and listening to the paragraph

897
00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:12,650
[Music]

898
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:17,190
so Chris O'Brien is a special assignment

899
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:19,200
we have Phyllis call D editor publisher

900
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,660
of fate magazine Jerome Clark UFO

901
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:24,240
historian and once someone who worked

902
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:24,960
with fate

903
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:28,170
so when Palmer moved up to Amherst and I

904
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:30,810
visited his home when I was very young

905
00:41:35,210 --> 00:41:33,690
long story he came out with his own line

906
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:35,220
of publications one called flying

907
00:41:41,180 --> 00:41:38,280
saucers one called search and seemed to

908
00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:41,190
me Jerry that search was intended to be

909
00:41:46,430 --> 00:41:43,980
the competitor to fate well its original

910
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:46,440
title was mystic as you may recall sure

911
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:49,980
and he changed the title to search was

912
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:52,890
it called search yeah in a few years

913
00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:55,920
later yes it was an inferior version of

914
00:42:01,069 --> 00:41:57,510
faith it didn't have the strong

915
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:01,079
editorial content that faded it was just

916
00:42:08,059 --> 00:42:04,050
I always thought myself that he was

917
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,069
publishing things for the Ray Palmer fan

918
00:42:12,910 --> 00:42:10,319
club and he believed that he had a fan

919
00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:12,920
club and he did he just I think

920
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:16,380
overestimated the size of it which is

921
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:18,900
why his operation which was basically

922
00:42:24,490 --> 00:42:21,210
built around his personality and his

923
00:42:27,230 --> 00:42:24,500
kind of freewheeling editorials and and

924
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:27,240
enthusiasms you know got him only a few

925
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:29,250
thousand readers he never really topped

926
00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:31,800
that there's a couple of very good

927
00:42:35,809 --> 00:42:33,720
biographies Ray Palmer out in the last

928
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:35,819
couple of years that tell the whole

929
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:37,920
story fed natives wrote one of them

930
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:41,520
Richard Toronto go to another called the

931
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:43,890
war over Lemuria which I be view in the

932
00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:45,270
currency should have paid by the way

933
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:48,569
well as you know richard toronto was on

934
00:42:54,020 --> 00:42:52,050
our show around that time when the book

935
00:42:57,620 --> 00:42:54,030
first came out to tell us it a

936
00:43:00,260 --> 00:42:57,630
fascinating story of early science

937
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:00,270
fiction Ray Palmer Richard shaver and

938
00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:02,670
all the wild things but I agree with you

939
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:06,750
that if you look at this statement that

940
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:08,760
a magazine always had to file if they're

941
00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:11,369
using second-class postage they had to

942
00:43:14,809 --> 00:43:12,839
file this statement showing how many

943
00:43:17,390 --> 00:43:14,819
copies they printed how many copies they

944
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:17,400
sold how many were sold on newsstands

945
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:19,290
they had to basically reveal their

946
00:43:24,529 --> 00:43:22,560
circulation and you'd see that fate you

947
00:43:26,179 --> 00:43:24,539
know had a pretty big circulation

948
00:43:28,219 --> 00:43:26,189
Palmer was sending out a few thousand

949
00:43:31,569 --> 00:43:28,229
copies yeah that's right I think that

950
00:43:34,969 --> 00:43:31,579
fate and its height which was in late

951
00:43:38,329 --> 00:43:34,979
1970s I think had a circulation of more

952
00:43:40,849 --> 00:43:38,339
than 200,000 but Ray Palmer never got

953
00:43:43,669 --> 00:43:40,859
close that his magazines really weren't

954
00:43:46,370 --> 00:43:43,679
that interesting unless you were also

955
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:46,380
into you know some kind of Palmer

956
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:48,689
enthusiasm like the shaver mystery or

957
00:43:57,439 --> 00:43:52,910
the Hollow Earth or something but I

958
00:43:59,390 --> 00:43:57,449
never really saw the charm of Ray Palmer

959
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,400
I know a lot of people disagree with

960
00:44:04,669 --> 00:44:02,160
that and god bless him but to me he was

961
00:44:07,849 --> 00:44:04,679
just some kind of you know just some

962
00:44:10,669 --> 00:44:07,859
kind of hustler and I never they like a

963
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:10,679
carnival barker yeah I just didn't ever

964
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:13,049
believe anything that he said I mean if

965
00:44:16,929 --> 00:44:14,819
he had told me the Sun was shining and

966
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:16,939
have looked out the window to be sure

967
00:44:20,989 --> 00:44:19,410
but he was a character I mean he was

968
00:44:24,890 --> 00:44:20,999
harmless he wasn't hurting anybody

969
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:24,900
maybe scaring some people that was about

970
00:44:30,759 --> 00:44:25,169
it

971
00:44:34,669 --> 00:44:33,229
but Maury islands especially because

972
00:44:36,799 --> 00:44:34,679
we're talking about something to happen

973
00:44:40,009 --> 00:44:36,809
we're talking about the fact that he got

974
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:40,019
a third party Kenneth Arnold involved in

975
00:44:43,699 --> 00:44:42,150
going out there investigating it you had

976
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:43,709
all these crazy things that were going

977
00:44:53,989 --> 00:44:47,880
on at the time so at least something

978
00:44:56,809 --> 00:44:53,999
there was it may have been a hoax but it

979
00:44:58,789 --> 00:44:56,819
was you know like so many hoax is an

980
00:45:01,729 --> 00:44:58,799
unkillable one there are still people

981
00:45:04,429 --> 00:45:01,739
promoting it but it was just cooked up

982
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:04,439
by a yeah by a con man named Fred

983
00:45:10,009 --> 00:45:07,890
Chrisman and you know and and and I

984
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:10,019
don't think even Palmer really believed

985
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:12,209
it ever but he thought it was a chance

986
00:45:16,939 --> 00:45:15,119
to promote things and one thing that

987
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:16,949
gets people's attention is conspiracy

988
00:45:22,819 --> 00:45:19,890
theories and paranoia and Palmer knew

989
00:45:24,919 --> 00:45:22,829
that and he'd be played on that but I

990
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,929
think that Palmer always had straight

991
00:45:29,899 --> 00:45:27,119
Christmas number of course Palmer also

992
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:29,909
got shot down in a book called the

993
00:45:34,819 --> 00:45:32,400
report on unidentified flying objects by

994
00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:34,829
Edward rappelled who had once had in

995
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:37,520
Project Blue Book he called him

996
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:40,370
the Chicago publisher and referred to

997
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:42,770
this as being one of the worst hoaxes in

998
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:45,170
history well it was because a couple of

999
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:47,420
Air Force officers were killed in a

1000
00:45:51,940 --> 00:45:48,560
plane crash while they were

1001
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:51,950
investigating it and who felt was

1002
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:55,280
understandably upset about this the big

1003
00:46:00,130 --> 00:45:57,050
concern of course is that plane crashes

1004
00:46:03,850 --> 00:46:00,140
could occur anyway but they didn't know

1005
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:03,860
there they were on a lot of bomber that

1006
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:07,010
was notoriously susceptible to crashes

1007
00:46:12,190 --> 00:46:09,050
it was not a very well-built aircraft

1008
00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:12,200
and also the two officers their names

1009
00:46:17,710 --> 00:46:15,140
are brown and Davidson had concluded

1010
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:17,720
that this was just a nonsensical hoax

1011
00:46:23,220 --> 00:46:20,390
and they were on their way back to the

1012
00:46:26,830 --> 00:46:23,230
Air Force Base from which they had flown

1013
00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:26,840
to you know tell their superiors as much

1014
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:30,110
this is just a crude hopes and not

1015
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:33,050
bother with it and of course there's

1016
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:36,290
tragic deaths get in corporations and

1017
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:39,110
conspiracy theories and in the paranoia

1018
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:42,140
and they the claim that they were killed

1019
00:46:48,460 --> 00:46:44,840
because they knew too much which is just

1020
00:46:51,730 --> 00:46:48,470
not verifiable in any historical sense

1021
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:51,740
but it's a good story right it's no good

1022
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:54,950
story right and the way he had set up in

1023
00:47:00,400 --> 00:46:57,650
the book the coming of the saucers you

1024
00:47:04,090 --> 00:47:00,410
almost thought that Kenneth Arnold was

1025
00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:04,100
living through an x-files scenario many

1026
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:06,110
many years before there was a program

1027
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:08,510
called the x-files I kind of wonder when

1028
00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:10,130
you think of things like Maury island

1029
00:47:17,260 --> 00:47:12,800
whether TV shows like the x-files in

1030
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:17,270
certain ways owe so much to that sort of

1031
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,730
thing well the men in black make their

1032
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:21,680
first appearance in the Maury Islands

1033
00:47:26,170 --> 00:47:24,290
story sure tense so you know a lot

1034
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:26,180
followed from that in terms of the you

1035
00:47:31,810 --> 00:47:28,610
know the mythology surrounding the early

1036
00:47:34,030 --> 00:47:31,820
flying saucer here and of course when

1037
00:47:37,660 --> 00:47:34,040
you want to talk about any surf

1038
00:47:38,610 --> 00:47:37,670
conspiracy theory about secrecy well

1039
00:47:41,710 --> 00:47:38,620
there you go

1040
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:41,720
yep it's a great story I'm always spent

1041
00:47:46,510 --> 00:47:43,610
surprised that no one's ever made a

1042
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:46,520
movie around the bori Island story it's

1043
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:49,760
a great story but if you read Arnold and

1044
00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:50,720
Palmer's

1045
00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:53,030
the coming of the saucers and Reid

1046
00:47:59,140 --> 00:47:56,390
Arnold's account carefully not his

1047
00:48:02,170 --> 00:47:59,150
editorial interpretations but just read

1048
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:02,180
what's going on it's very clear that

1049
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:06,430
he's being lied to and that Arnold's who

1050
00:48:12,609 --> 00:48:09,440
was naive because he grew up with people

1051
00:48:15,220 --> 00:48:12,619
within lie you know whose word was their

1052
00:48:17,140 --> 00:48:15,230
bond but these guys are lying to him and

1053
00:48:20,140 --> 00:48:17,150
if you read that it's clear that that's

1054
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:20,150
what they're doing and Arnold just isn't

1055
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:22,310
catching on to that because you know

1056
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:24,950
this kind of conservative Western

1057
00:48:29,050 --> 00:48:26,690
cultural background he didn't realize

1058
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:29,060
that there were you know pathological

1059
00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:31,760
liars out there the other thing that

1060
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:33,950
troubled me about that whole book and

1061
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:37,250
what happened is the incident where his

1062
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:39,710
plane lost power because this power

1063
00:48:45,550 --> 00:48:42,650
switch was turned off accidentally and

1064
00:48:48,250 --> 00:48:45,560
that seemed to infuse the paranoia of

1065
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:48,260
the episode right it reminds me of a

1066
00:48:53,410 --> 00:48:50,810
line in a Bob Dylan song take what you

1067
00:48:55,089 --> 00:48:53,420
have gathered from coincidence and

1068
00:48:58,900 --> 00:48:55,099
that's really we're all conspiracy

1069
00:49:02,260 --> 00:48:58,910
theory start the question always is is

1070
00:49:04,089 --> 00:49:02,270
is justice a coincidence or something

1071
00:49:07,530 --> 00:49:04,099
there are there are just coincidences

1072
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:07,540
and also you look at anything and

1073
00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:10,400
reality is such that it doesn't have

1074
00:49:16,660 --> 00:49:14,660
clear and sharp lines like some of the

1075
00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:16,670
lines the kind of ragged and little

1076
00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:18,920
things happen in the context of a larger

1077
00:49:23,859 --> 00:49:21,950
narrative that don't quite fit they

1078
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:23,869
don't unravel the whole narrative

1079
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:27,770
usually but nothing is completely

1080
00:49:32,380 --> 00:49:29,450
clear-cut if yours

1081
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:32,390
it's some complicated experience that's

1082
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,400
going to happen and you're trying to

1083
00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:35,839
reconstruct it they're always going to

1084
00:49:42,910 --> 00:49:40,540
be pieces that don't quite fit but the

1085
00:49:45,309 --> 00:49:42,920
significance you want to attach to them

1086
00:49:47,470 --> 00:49:45,319
is something else and yeah there are

1087
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:47,480
curiosities and the story that we hear

1088
00:49:54,490 --> 00:49:50,270
about about the Maury island but the

1089
00:50:00,000 --> 00:49:54,500
larger reality is that even his kids and

1090
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:00,010
the kids of Harold Dahl testified that

1091
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:02,960
Chrisman was just a guy who made up

1092
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:04,160
stuff and was all

1093
00:50:08,740 --> 00:50:06,170
he's involved in one scam or other

1094
00:50:11,530 --> 00:50:08,750
remember this guy had written palmer

1095
00:50:13,810 --> 00:50:11,540
earlier and claimed to have shot his way

1096
00:50:16,690 --> 00:50:13,820
with the machine gun out of a cavern

1097
00:50:18,730 --> 00:50:16,700
full of menacing heroes were these

1098
00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:18,740
demonic entities in the shape of mystery

1099
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:21,560
now I don't believe that the shaver

1100
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:24,410
mystery is true or that heroes exist or

1101
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:27,410
that Fred Chrisman shot his way out of a

1102
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:30,890
cave so why should I believe his story

1103
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:33,710
about Morey Holland particularly since

1104
00:50:39,780 --> 00:50:37,250
the UPI reporter the I think with you

1105
00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:39,790
know United Press in those days

1106
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:43,070
interviewed Harold Dahl at the time it

1107
00:50:49,090 --> 00:50:46,370
happened Harold Dahl was Christmas

1108
00:50:53,740 --> 00:50:49,100
associate and Dahl confessed that it was

1109
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:53,750
a hoax after his wife waved a knife at

1110
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:55,850
him and said pellets reported the truth

1111
00:51:00,610 --> 00:50:57,770
you know that's all part of the record

1112
00:51:01,060 --> 00:51:00,620
but the way you can take a story like

1113
00:51:04,420 --> 00:51:01,070
that

1114
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:04,430
and it becomes a legend in the UFO field

1115
00:51:09,580 --> 00:51:07,730
91 guy and he's no longer around so I

1116
00:51:12,340 --> 00:51:09,590
won't make a big deal of it but he was

1117
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:12,350
actually investigating Chrisman to see

1118
00:51:15,790 --> 00:51:14,330
if there was something more to his life

1119
00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:15,800
it gets very complicated

1120
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:19,340
Jerome Clark once an editor of fate

1121
00:51:24,430 --> 00:51:22,850
magazine UFO historian Phyllis called II

1122
00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:24,440
the editor and publisher of fate

1123
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:37,570
[Music]

1124
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:40,520
free from the shackles of Corporate

1125
00:51:49,580 --> 00:51:43,380
America we're the place for independent

1126
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:49,590
thinkers hi this is Ted Anderson if

1127
00:51:53,690 --> 00:51:51,570
you'd like to listen to GCN programs on

1128
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:53,700
the goal I have great news gzn has

1129
00:51:58,010 --> 00:51:55,890
created a Droid and iPhone application

1130
00:52:00,260 --> 00:51:58,020
and it's free just as easy as going to

1131
00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:00,270
GC and live.com click on the banner and

1132
00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:02,070
download before you know it you'll be

1133
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:03,600
listening to your favorite hard-hitting

1134
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:05,970
GCN shows live around demand right on

1135
00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:08,640
your Droid or iPhone 24/7 and on the go

1136
00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:10,950
so download the Droid an iPhone app free

1137
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:12,600
by clicking on the banner at juicy and

1138
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,490
live.com thanks again for listening to

1139
00:52:19,220 --> 00:52:16,800
GC and live.com again that's juicy and

1140
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:19,230
live.com we the people grow cotton wheat

1141
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:21,240
fabric engraving can bed strips and

1142
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:22,890
fibers to protect from counterfeit and

1143
00:52:25,610 --> 00:52:24,660
carding to a private bank having it led

1144
00:52:27,350 --> 00:52:25,620
back at interest

1145
00:52:29,210 --> 00:52:27,360
forcing taxes to service debt this

1146
00:52:30,650 --> 00:52:29,220
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1147
00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:30,660
stating a central bank issuing the

1148
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:32,310
public currency is a greater menace to

1149
00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:33,420
the liberties of the people than a

1150
00:52:36,590 --> 00:52:35,160
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

1151
00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:36,600
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1152
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:38,430
that explains our monetary system call

1153
00:52:45,140 --> 00:52:41,970
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1154
00:52:47,060 --> 00:52:45,150
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1155
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:47,070
that's eight hundred six eight six two

1156
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:50,850
two three seven four years you've been

1157
00:52:54,980 --> 00:52:52,890
hearing about verbal healer Academy and

1158
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:54,990
how has remained the leader in effective

1159
00:52:59,420 --> 00:52:56,910
alternative and natural medicine and

1160
00:53:01,580 --> 00:52:59,430
education but how can they continue to

1161
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:01,590
hold that title for years on end

1162
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:04,140
the answer is high quality and huge

1163
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:07,020
selection just visit herbal healer calm

1164
00:53:11,450 --> 00:53:09,450
and shop online or request a free

1165
00:53:13,820 --> 00:53:11,460
catalog you're bound to find the

1166
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:13,830
alternative you're looking for did you

1167
00:53:17,570 --> 00:53:15,570
know that herbal healer carries the

1168
00:53:20,060 --> 00:53:17,580
latest safest and effective weight loss

1169
00:53:21,830 --> 00:53:20,070
products you can also count on herbal

1170
00:53:24,170 --> 00:53:21,840
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1171
00:53:25,970 --> 00:53:24,180
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1172
00:53:28,610 --> 00:53:25,980
children and don't forget your pets

1173
00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:28,620
herbal wheeler even has natural mineral

1174
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:30,120
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1175
00:53:34,850 --> 00:53:32,850
including horses cows and birds take a

1176
00:53:36,530 --> 00:53:34,860
peek at their online calendar and you're

1177
00:53:38,810 --> 00:53:36,540
sure to find everything you need and

1178
00:53:41,390 --> 00:53:38,820
maybe something you didn't realize you

1179
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:41,400
needed visit herbal healer calm and

1180
00:53:45,590 --> 00:53:43,050
don't forget to sign up for the free

1181
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:45,600
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1182
00:53:58,990 --> 00:53:55,260
[Applause]

1183
00:54:03,300 --> 00:53:59,000
welcome back into the para cast the gold

1184
00:54:11,830 --> 00:54:03,310
standard of paranormal radio and now

1185
00:54:14,350 --> 00:54:11,840
here's Jane Steinberg on the para cast

1186
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:14,360
Chris O'Brien's on special assignment we

1187
00:54:18,910 --> 00:54:16,550
have Jerome Clarke and Phyllis called E

1188
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:18,920
and for both of you I have a question

1189
00:54:23,470 --> 00:54:21,050
here from one of our regulars in the

1190
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:23,480
forums at forum dr. power cast calm

1191
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:27,710
Berndt state first joined in 2012 so

1192
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:30,650
he's been a busy bee okay it says here

1193
00:54:36,310 --> 00:54:33,200
the history of fate magazine has

1194
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,320
included some very interesting debunking

1195
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:39,680
of major paranormal tales in your

1196
00:54:44,290 --> 00:54:41,810
opinion what has been the most important

1197
00:54:48,130 --> 00:54:44,300
debunking featured in fate over the

1198
00:54:52,330 --> 00:54:48,140
years and why Jerry well probably the

1199
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:52,340
Bermuda Triangle sea actually ran one of

1200
00:54:58,990 --> 00:54:54,890
the very first media triangle articles

1201
00:55:00,730 --> 00:54:59,000
in 1950 1951 and painted a lot of

1202
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:00,740
attention before it became a national

1203
00:55:06,940 --> 00:55:04,490
fad in the early 1970s but they did

1204
00:55:08,980 --> 00:55:06,950
publish an article one by Larry cush it

1205
00:55:11,610 --> 00:55:08,990
was the major debunker of the Bermuda

1206
00:55:13,810 --> 00:55:11,620
Triangle showing that allegedly

1207
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:13,820
mysterious disappearances kind of

1208
00:55:18,850 --> 00:55:16,730
evaporated under investigation one

1209
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:18,860
reason that we ran debunking articles

1210
00:55:24,580 --> 00:55:22,490
was first of all we wanted the truth as

1211
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:24,590
near as it could be determined to be

1212
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:27,680
exposed but we also knew that even if

1213
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:29,990
readers at least some readers didn't

1214
00:55:32,590 --> 00:55:31,850
want to read about something that wasn't

1215
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:32,600
true

1216
00:55:36,850 --> 00:55:34,850
that it basically reassured the

1217
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:36,860
readership that we cared about whether

1218
00:55:42,310 --> 00:55:40,130
what we published was credible or not so

1219
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,320
at one point we were publishing like you

1220
00:55:46,180 --> 00:55:44,000
know maybe as much as one debunking

1221
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:46,190
article month and just kind of you know

1222
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:49,370
clearing the bomber I'm proud of that I

1223
00:55:54,610 --> 00:55:51,710
think we did a good job Phyllis do you

1224
00:55:56,980 --> 00:55:54,620
have any examples well one of this is

1225
00:56:00,250 --> 00:55:56,990
before my time about the Philadelphia

1226
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:00,260
Experiment oh yes you've got tell our

1227
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:02,240
listeners a little bit about the

1228
00:56:05,380 --> 00:56:03,890
background the Philadelphia Experiment

1229
00:56:06,130 --> 00:56:05,390
because we have some listeners who

1230
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:06,140
haven't heard this

1231
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:08,569
well I think mr. Clark would be better

1232
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:11,839
qualified for that Jerry yeah this whole

1233
00:56:16,809 --> 00:56:13,609
thing started with some letters that

1234
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:16,819
Morris cake yes it was an early 1950s

1235
00:56:20,620 --> 00:56:18,890
you know for writer authored several

1236
00:56:22,739 --> 00:56:20,630
books in fact the first books had

1237
00:56:27,249 --> 00:56:22,749
actually used you up full in the title

1238
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:27,259
new phrase then for the UFO and the

1239
00:56:30,940 --> 00:56:30,170
expanding case for the UFO right

1240
00:56:32,890 --> 00:56:30,950
beautiful

1241
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:32,900
annual and UFO in the Bible there were

1242
00:56:37,479 --> 00:56:35,210
four of them and there was a big thing

1243
00:56:39,970 --> 00:56:37,489
or a big to do because supposedly he

1244
00:56:42,729 --> 00:56:39,980
took his own life well he did things on

1245
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:42,739
life he got very depressed his career

1246
00:56:47,529 --> 00:56:44,210
wasn't going anywhere is running out of

1247
00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:47,539
money he had a very rough time and he

1248
00:56:54,579 --> 00:56:51,529
killed himself on April 28th 1989 what

1249
00:56:58,109 --> 00:56:54,589
in 1955 he got these letters from some

1250
00:57:01,930 --> 00:56:58,119
guy who signed his name Carlos a nd and

1251
00:57:04,210 --> 00:57:01,940
they were just largely incoherent and

1252
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:04,220
part of this was a marked up copy of a

1253
00:57:09,489 --> 00:57:06,410
paperback of met Jessup's book the case

1254
00:57:12,249 --> 00:57:09,499
of the UFO and it hinted at all kinds of

1255
00:57:14,739 --> 00:57:12,259
esoteric knowledge that a yen day and

1256
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:14,749
several other people apparently gypsies

1257
00:57:20,109 --> 00:57:18,170
knew all kinds of secrets about UFOs and

1258
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:20,119
other things and it was all quite

1259
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:22,730
cryptic in anyway the story developed

1260
00:57:28,269 --> 00:57:25,609
out of there and eventually became

1261
00:57:30,279 --> 00:57:28,279
subject of books and movies a lot of

1262
00:57:32,829 --> 00:57:30,289
excitement that there had been this is

1263
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:32,839
one of the things that a yen day claim

1264
00:57:38,589 --> 00:57:34,970
was there have been this experiment in

1265
00:57:41,289 --> 00:57:38,599
the fills out the Naval Yard in 1943 I

1266
00:57:44,019 --> 00:57:41,299
believe were ship and its crew had been

1267
00:57:46,839 --> 00:57:44,029
rendered invisible and all concerns gone

1268
00:57:49,539 --> 00:57:46,849
mad they actually did a couple of movies

1269
00:57:51,220 --> 00:57:49,549
about this right and actually one of

1270
00:57:52,989 --> 00:57:51,230
them was pretty good he still the one

1271
00:57:55,269 --> 00:57:52,999
that I saw that was which was done as a

1272
00:57:57,759 --> 00:57:55,279
science fiction drama was actually quite

1273
00:57:59,380 --> 00:57:57,769
an entertaining movie but anyway a fate

1274
00:58:01,690 --> 00:57:59,390
reader named Bob Gorman is still

1275
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:01,700
associated with the magazine living in

1276
00:58:07,930 --> 00:58:04,880
little town Pennsylvania discovered that

1277
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:07,940
his neighbors whom he had known all his

1278
00:58:14,319 --> 00:58:10,730
life with the parents of a guy named

1279
00:58:17,799 --> 00:58:14,329
Carl Allen and Carl Allen was this kind

1280
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:17,809
of drifter and he was a nut and he kind

1281
00:58:21,590 --> 00:58:19,770
of maybe I should say

1282
00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:21,600
suffered from mental problems it's a

1283
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:23,640
kind of way to put it but he kind of

1284
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:25,710
shifted in and out of reality and he

1285
00:58:31,730 --> 00:58:28,290
told stories and it turned out that

1286
00:58:34,580 --> 00:58:31,740
Carlos a nd was really Carl Allen and

1287
00:58:36,140 --> 00:58:34,590
Carl Allen had was responsible for these

1288
00:58:38,690 --> 00:58:36,150
letters and these stories about the

1289
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:38,700
Philadelphia Experiment Allen died a few

1290
00:58:43,220 --> 00:58:41,490
years ago and some people still persist

1291
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:43,230
in believing that he was a mysterious

1292
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:46,170
figure but actually he was just sort of

1293
00:58:51,890 --> 00:58:49,020
a tragic character who who dreamed and

1294
00:58:54,020 --> 00:58:51,900
wandered so anyway fate ran an article

1295
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:54,030
about that and that was I think one of

1296
00:58:58,370 --> 00:58:56,220
our really important debunking now I

1297
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:58,380
remember that the Philadelphia

1298
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:01,200
Experiment generated loads of articles

1299
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:04,290
charles berlitz did a book about it he

1300
00:59:10,970 --> 00:59:08,940
made a whole mysticism about the so

1301
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:10,980
called quote unquote annotated version

1302
00:59:17,380 --> 00:59:14,370
of the case for the UFO and all that and

1303
00:59:21,050 --> 00:59:17,390
the thing I maybe you can explain to be

1304
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:21,060
someone actually reprinted the annotated

1305
00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:24,810
version of the book for some kind of

1306
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:28,140
military agency or something research

1307
00:59:34,580 --> 00:59:32,250
why well that's never been entirely

1308
00:59:37,100 --> 00:59:34,590
clear there were several individuals in

1309
00:59:39,250 --> 00:59:37,110
the office of the naval research who got

1310
00:59:42,020 --> 00:59:39,260
interested in it they were looking for

1311
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:42,030
fresh thinking about gravity and

1312
00:59:46,550 --> 00:59:44,730
propulsion and they were willing to look

1313
00:59:48,500 --> 00:59:46,560
almost anywhere to see you know

1314
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:48,510
including what we would think of

1315
00:59:52,850 --> 00:59:50,910
mortality is cranked literature to see

1316
00:59:56,030 --> 00:59:52,860
if somebody had stumbled on something

1317
00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:56,040
and somebody there got really intrigued

1318
01:00:02,600 --> 00:59:58,650
by this story about the annotated case

1319
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:02,610
for the UFO and saw to it that a that a

1320
01:00:10,730 --> 01:00:06,110
formally printed version of the

1321
01:00:13,790 --> 01:00:10,740
annotations was made available in a very

1322
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:13,800
small printing and I think that to some

1323
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:16,130
people you know this gave the story

1324
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:19,410
credibility better that that might be

1325
01:00:23,390 --> 01:00:21,270
one reason the story survived

1326
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:23,400
apart from just some crank letters that

1327
01:00:28,460 --> 01:00:26,730
a UFO author had received that the the

1328
01:00:30,380 --> 01:00:28,470
onr the office of naval research

1329
01:00:33,260 --> 01:00:30,390
actually seemed to have taken this

1330
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:33,270
seriously but it really didn't

1331
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:35,370
too much when it was examined than they

1332
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:37,530
were in the responsible individuals

1333
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:40,440
interviewed many years ago but it did

1334
01:00:45,830 --> 01:00:43,200
give it some ostensibly really at least

1335
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:45,840
for a while in passing this is the sort

1336
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:47,250
of thing it seems to happen in a lot of

1337
01:00:52,430 --> 01:00:49,740
fields and that is something gets

1338
01:00:55,100 --> 01:00:52,440
debunked but it's never debunked if you

1339
01:00:58,340 --> 01:00:55,110
know what I mean exactly and certainly

1340
01:01:01,040 --> 01:00:58,350
this the annotated edition of the case

1341
01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:01,050
for the UFO oh wow all right

1342
01:01:06,650 --> 01:01:03,600
burnt State wants to give you the flip

1343
01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:06,660
side of the question so okay Phyllis and

1344
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:09,510
Jerry on the flip side what would you

1345
01:01:16,430 --> 01:01:12,530
say is the most important and critical

1346
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,440
paranormal or esoteric story exposing an

1347
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:18,480
alternate reality that has been featured

1348
01:01:25,130 --> 01:01:23,010
in the magazine over the years oh my god

1349
01:01:27,380 --> 01:01:25,140
well hey I haven't even got to respond

1350
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:27,390
on the script and the the debunking

1351
01:01:31,580 --> 01:01:29,250
stuff yet let's have you do that and

1352
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:31,590
then we'll go back to this one yeah okay

1353
01:01:40,820 --> 01:01:36,690
first of all debunking well of course

1354
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:40,830
fate debunked a movie and TV version of

1355
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:43,050
The Amityville Horror and the book

1356
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:46,380
version so we were probably unpopular

1357
01:01:51,170 --> 01:01:47,970
for that I mean though they just took

1358
01:01:53,660 --> 01:01:51,180
that and ran and and went crazy with

1359
01:01:56,990 --> 01:01:53,670
embellishing the story which really

1360
01:02:00,680 --> 01:01:57,000
really didn't quite happen happen like I

1361
01:02:05,060 --> 01:02:00,690
was glad II Peter Blatty told about it

1362
01:02:09,170 --> 01:02:05,070
so we did the Amityville Horror debunked

1363
01:02:11,330 --> 01:02:09,180
of that and the phone psychics we called

1364
01:02:14,030 --> 01:02:11,340
out people like the Miss Cleo stuff we

1365
01:02:19,490 --> 01:02:14,040
warn people about you can't believe all

1366
01:02:23,420 --> 01:02:19,500
all the psychics 900 lines and remember

1367
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:23,430
star baby that we debunked the skeptic

1368
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:25,770
so to speak if they don't believe in

1369
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:27,240
anything paranormal

1370
01:02:32,780 --> 01:02:30,480
and I'm sure Jerry remembers at the time

1371
01:02:35,270 --> 01:02:32,790
when that was written I remember that

1372
01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:35,280
dude Lee I was the guide in charge of

1373
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:38,430
that to fade on yes yeah no I spent a

1374
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:40,530
lot I worked almost full time on that

1375
01:02:44,569 --> 01:02:42,690
for several months now

1376
01:02:46,849 --> 01:02:44,579
going back to a medieval horror I want

1377
01:02:49,059 --> 01:02:46,859
to ask you there okay obviously when you

1378
01:02:50,839 --> 01:02:49,069
make a movie you don't expect a movie to

1379
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:50,849
represent more than a rough

1380
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:53,970
approximation of something that even if

1381
01:02:59,059 --> 01:02:55,770
it's based on truth unless it's an

1382
01:03:00,589 --> 01:02:59,069
historical drama so we're going to have

1383
01:03:02,930 --> 01:03:00,599
to wrap up this segment in a moment

1384
01:03:06,290 --> 01:03:02,940
Phyllis but can you tell us what about

1385
01:03:07,790 --> 01:03:06,300
The Amityville Horror and a lot of our

1386
01:03:11,210 --> 01:03:07,800
listeners have probably seen the movie

1387
01:03:14,180 --> 01:03:11,220
and I did a remake - what about it was

1388
01:03:15,859 --> 01:03:14,190
completely embellished I actually met

1389
01:03:18,290 --> 01:03:15,869
the son of the people who lived there

1390
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:18,300
you know how it was told and what came

1391
01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:20,640
down really were there were different

1392
01:03:24,140 --> 01:03:22,020
things of course that's Hollywood I

1393
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:24,150
guess we're used to that now they take a

1394
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:26,609
tiny bit of a story and then just like

1395
01:03:31,309 --> 01:03:29,250
The Exorcist - they made that way more

1396
01:03:33,290 --> 01:03:31,319
than it what actually happened we'll

1397
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:33,300
have more than what you might expect

1398
01:03:37,250 --> 01:03:35,250
more than what might have actually

1399
01:03:37,940 --> 01:03:37,260
happened I don't know Phyllis called a

1400
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:37,950
of fate

1401
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:46,920
Jerome Carr joining us you're in cash do

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1413
01:04:19,819 --> 01:04:18,060
first game attack of the Rockets and it

1414
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:19,829
was a critically acclaimed success and

1415
01:04:24,319 --> 01:04:21,930
now there's the coming of the protectors

1416
01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:24,329
a former military intelligence man is

1417
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:26,609
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1418
01:04:30,829 --> 01:04:28,410
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1419
01:04:32,569 --> 01:04:30,839
because evil forces on our distant

1420
01:04:35,210 --> 01:04:32,579
planet are planning to conquer the earth

1421
01:04:37,940 --> 01:04:35,220
this is gripping science fiction of the

1422
01:04:39,890 --> 01:04:37,950
classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

1423
01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:39,900
the coming of the protectors find out

1424
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:42,510
more at Rocko it's calm that's Rocko

1425
01:04:49,339 --> 01:04:47,280
it's our Ock oids calm hi this is Gary

1426
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:49,349
Cooper with Midas Resources gold and

1427
01:04:53,359 --> 01:04:51,359
silver government shutdown inept

1428
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:53,369
politicians entitlements looming

1429
01:04:56,359 --> 01:04:55,680
Obamacare the death of the US dollars

1430
01:04:58,190 --> 01:04:56,369
the global

1431
01:04:59,900 --> 01:04:58,200
serve currency is what nobody wants to

1432
01:05:01,670 --> 01:04:59,910
acknowledge we have a debt bubble that

1433
01:05:03,259 --> 01:05:01,680
cannot be paid and will eventually crash

1434
01:05:04,940 --> 01:05:03,269
the dollar if you're concerned about

1435
01:05:06,589 --> 01:05:04,950
keeping your money why not consider

1436
01:05:44,029 --> 01:05:06,599
storing your wealth in gold and silver

1437
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:51,559
Dietz sent to 130 yeah well I did but

1438
01:05:54,650 --> 01:05:53,099
now that I do I'm not so sure sir

1439
01:05:56,690 --> 01:05:54,660
Johnson I got a mission for you I could

1440
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:56,700
change your life oh good sir it involves

1441
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:58,319
traveling halfway around the world blad

1442
01:06:00,620 --> 01:05:59,700
so much as half a clue where you're

1443
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:00,630
going or what you're gonna do when you

1444
01:06:04,579 --> 01:06:03,150
get there situation normal sir well I'll

1445
01:06:06,140 --> 01:06:04,589
be leading this mission Johnson so I'll

1446
01:06:07,789 --> 01:06:06,150
be telling you what to do you sir that's

1447
01:06:09,799 --> 01:06:07,799
right Johnson and I say first things

1448
01:06:11,989 --> 01:06:09,809
first good plan sir and what I say is

1449
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:11,999
first is food always remember that

1450
01:06:15,289 --> 01:06:14,130
Johnson food is a big deal sir my

1451
01:06:17,150 --> 01:06:15,299
brother Larkin gets a really good deal

1452
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:17,160
on some surplus MREs Johnson if you've

1453
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:19,410
got half a brain and that empty head of

1454
01:06:23,210 --> 01:06:20,970
yours you'll call the freeze dry guy

1455
01:06:25,849 --> 01:06:23,220
like I did that food is better for you

1456
01:06:28,579 --> 01:06:25,859
rehydrates faster and it's good Johnson

1457
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:28,589
and it keeps for up to 30 years we be

1458
01:06:32,599 --> 01:06:30,960
gone that long sir I hope not now get

1459
01:06:36,590 --> 01:06:32,609
your supplies organized and meet me down

1460
01:06:39,150 --> 01:06:36,600
to the pier at dawn on Sunday we sail

1461
01:06:44,820 --> 01:06:39,160
this adventure is brought to you by the

1462
01:06:47,510 --> 01:06:44,830
freeze dry guy call 866 404 3-6 6-3 or

1463
01:06:50,430 --> 01:06:47,520
visit freeze dry guy.com

1464
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:50,440
question could too many GMO foods and

1465
01:06:55,170 --> 01:06:52,480
toxins be overloading your digestive and

1466
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searching for a powerful detox that's

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01:07:02,130 --> 01:06:59,290
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1469
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1470
01:07:06,390 --> 01:07:04,420
powerful liquid probiotic that uses good

1471
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1472
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1473
01:07:12,450 --> 01:07:10,450
healthy digestive system will cleanse

1474
01:07:14,550 --> 01:07:12,460
and remove toxins support weight loss

1475
01:07:16,290 --> 01:07:14,560
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1476
01:07:18,690 --> 01:07:16,300
aid in controlling yeast and other

1477
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infections pro-am one is made with only

1478
01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:20,650
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1479
01:07:25,590 --> 01:07:22,960
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1480
01:07:27,570 --> 01:07:25,600
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1481
01:07:30,030 --> 01:07:27,580
one is the key to your digestive health

1482
01:07:34,140 --> 01:07:30,040
Porter pro am one daily probiotic lens

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1484
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1485
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1489
01:07:53,790 --> 01:07:52,150
better we'd like to hear from you if you

1490
01:07:57,030 --> 01:07:53,800
have a comment or question about the

1491
01:07:58,290 --> 01:07:57,040
para cast sent it to news at the para

1492
01:08:01,500 --> 01:07:58,300
cast com

1493
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,510
that's news at the para cast dot-com

1494
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:03,280
and don't forget to visit our famous

1495
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:06,730
para cast community forums at forum dot

1496
01:08:13,410 --> 01:08:11,680
the podcast.com on the para cast Chris

1497
01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:13,420
O'Brien's on special assignment Phyllis

1498
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:15,100
call the editor publisher of fates with

1499
01:08:20,519 --> 01:08:18,250
us Jerome Clark joins us let's go back

1500
01:08:23,729 --> 01:08:20,529
to the second part of the question from

1501
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:23,739
burnt State and I'll read that on the

1502
01:08:28,530 --> 01:08:25,810
flip side what would you say is the most

1503
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:28,540
important and critical paranormal or

1504
01:08:34,380 --> 01:08:32,080
esoteric story exposing an alternate

1505
01:08:37,380 --> 01:08:34,390
reality that has been featured in the

1506
01:08:39,180 --> 01:08:37,390
magazine over the years Jerry Clark well

1507
01:08:42,410 --> 01:08:39,190
I don't really think that question is

1508
01:08:44,099 --> 01:08:42,420
answerable demands a definition of

1509
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:44,109
evidence

1510
01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:46,960
you know persuasiveness documentation

1511
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:50,020
that can't be answered in in a really

1512
01:08:56,820 --> 01:08:54,400
kind of sweeping way but you get mostly

1513
01:09:00,180 --> 01:08:56,830
with anomalies in the paranormal is what

1514
01:09:03,900 --> 01:09:00,190
I call memory and testimony you don't

1515
01:09:06,749 --> 01:09:03,910
get physical evidence very often you

1516
01:09:09,180 --> 01:09:06,759
don't get the kinds of evidence we

1517
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:09,190
require for example if I claimed there

1518
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:12,880
was an unknown squirrel living in my

1519
01:09:18,180 --> 01:09:15,250
backyard I think that I could eventually

1520
01:09:19,769 --> 01:09:18,190
document that even short of having to

1521
01:09:24,269 --> 01:09:19,779
kill the animal which I wouldn't want to

1522
01:09:26,340 --> 01:09:24,279
do but with this paranormal an anomalous

1523
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:26,350
experience you're really dealing with

1524
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:30,730
things that are vividly perceived by an

1525
01:09:40,019 --> 01:09:35,770
individual and are genuinely anomalous

1526
01:09:42,630 --> 01:09:40,029
and unexplained experiences but that by

1527
01:09:45,030 --> 01:09:42,640
their nature they're not provable they

1528
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:45,040
exist only as I said earlier in memory

1529
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:48,130
and testimony and so yes you can have

1530
01:09:53,900 --> 01:09:51,040
these experience and you can be sincere

1531
01:09:56,190 --> 01:09:53,910
you can be sane in fact that describes

1532
01:09:57,660 --> 01:09:56,200
hundreds of millions of people over the

1533
01:10:00,450 --> 01:09:57,670
history of humanity you've had

1534
01:10:01,260 --> 01:10:00,460
extraordinary experiences but you can

1535
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:01,270
prove it

1536
01:10:05,970 --> 01:10:03,850
and so we try to put into a category of

1537
01:10:09,690 --> 01:10:05,980
yes it happened or no it didn't happen

1538
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:09,700
what if there's some third character in

1539
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:12,250
some third characteristic between those

1540
01:10:15,109 --> 01:10:14,560
and that's where so much of this

1541
01:10:18,350 --> 01:10:15,119
happened

1542
01:10:20,989 --> 01:10:18,360
you know I have myself saw as I told on

1543
01:10:24,619 --> 01:10:20,999
the show before you know a phantom

1544
01:10:29,299 --> 01:10:24,629
quadrupeds my front lawn on three

1545
01:10:32,089 --> 01:10:29,309
separate occasions and I can't prove it

1546
01:10:35,330 --> 01:10:32,099
I can remember it I believe I'm saying I

1547
01:10:38,569 --> 01:10:35,340
know I'm sincere but I can't prove it so

1548
01:10:40,909 --> 01:10:38,579
much much of face content was people's

1549
01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:40,919
experiences of things that were very

1550
01:10:44,569 --> 01:10:42,719
real to them that didn't appear to be

1551
01:10:48,139 --> 01:10:44,579
hoaxes or hallucinations and then he

1552
01:10:50,389 --> 01:10:48,149
ordinarily understood definition we're

1553
01:10:52,069 --> 01:10:50,399
very puzzling to them stayed with them

1554
01:10:54,889 --> 01:10:52,079
because they couldn't make sense of them

1555
01:10:57,889 --> 01:10:54,899
but in the end we're just memory and

1556
01:11:01,250 --> 01:10:57,899
testimony now you know you can deal with

1557
01:11:03,859 --> 01:11:01,260
things like you know there's a few UFO

1558
01:11:05,359 --> 01:11:03,869
cases that rise above that and then

1559
01:11:07,339 --> 01:11:05,369
leave open the question of

1560
01:11:10,580 --> 01:11:07,349
extraterrestrial visitation in somebody

1561
01:11:12,350 --> 01:11:10,590
else's technology but most experience of

1562
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:12,360
the extraordinary are just that you

1563
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:14,369
can't there don't seem to be advanced

1564
01:11:19,129 --> 01:11:17,010
they don't seem to be illusion they're

1565
01:11:20,899 --> 01:11:19,139
just something with the characteristics

1566
01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:20,909
that both of them well this kind of

1567
01:11:25,219 --> 01:11:22,860
forms something we asked about before

1568
01:11:26,979 --> 01:11:25,229
but this is the third question I think

1569
01:11:29,779 --> 01:11:26,989
part of this has been answered already

1570
01:11:32,060 --> 01:11:29,789
but I'll bring it up because we can

1571
01:11:35,540 --> 01:11:32,070
expand on your response Jerry

1572
01:11:38,209 --> 01:11:35,550
fate has featured a wide-ranging set of

1573
01:11:41,449 --> 01:11:38,219
stories that include both the improbable

1574
01:11:43,790 --> 01:11:41,459
and very possible what for you is the

1575
01:11:46,429 --> 01:11:43,800
driving philosophy behind the magazine

1576
01:11:49,459 --> 01:11:46,439
to be informative or to be entertaining

1577
01:11:53,029 --> 01:11:49,469
how important is fact confirmation in

1578
01:11:56,270 --> 01:11:53,039
this publication Jerry first well as I

1579
01:11:59,330 --> 01:11:56,280
said earlier in this conversation it was

1580
01:12:02,179 --> 01:11:59,340
what we as faint as or try to do was to

1581
01:12:03,799 --> 01:12:02,189
get people to sign affidavits if they

1582
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:03,809
mentioned somebody else who was there

1583
01:12:10,699 --> 01:12:06,570
what had happened we would contact that

1584
01:12:13,429 --> 01:12:10,709
person and ask him or her to affirm that

1585
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:13,439
it happened or provided an affidavit and

1586
01:12:18,609 --> 01:12:15,840
you know we did some fact-checking

1587
01:12:22,279 --> 01:12:18,619
I think that overwhelmingly state

1588
01:12:24,889 --> 01:12:22,289
contributors were describing sincerely

1589
01:12:27,109 --> 01:12:24,899
things that they had seen or experienced

1590
01:12:29,450 --> 01:12:27,119
and if we found out that we've been lied

1591
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:29,460
to I remember one

1592
01:12:33,010 --> 01:12:31,440
well I remember several particular cases

1593
01:12:35,660 --> 01:12:33,020
where we found out that we've been

1594
01:12:38,660 --> 01:12:35,670
bamboozled and we ran prominent

1595
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:38,670
retractions explaining why this story

1596
01:12:43,700 --> 01:12:41,400
wasn't true and how we had found out

1597
01:12:45,170 --> 01:12:43,710
that it wasn't true now I don't think

1598
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:45,180
it's a question of whether something is

1599
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:47,850
informative or entertaining those are

1600
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:50,640
not mutually exclusive categories

1601
01:12:55,220 --> 01:12:52,530
I mean we're entertained all the time by

1602
01:12:57,340 --> 01:12:55,230
things that are also inform us now in

1603
01:13:00,260 --> 01:12:57,350
something like this here when you find

1604
01:13:03,170 --> 01:13:00,270
something is false obviously you'll

1605
01:13:04,700 --> 01:13:03,180
expose it I get the sense though that in

1606
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:04,710
large part because we're talking about

1607
01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:07,050
things that people experience if someone

1608
01:13:14,750 --> 01:13:10,500
seems real seems sincere the story seems

1609
01:13:16,730 --> 01:13:14,760
to have an air of fact to it at least it

1610
01:13:18,650 --> 01:13:16,740
seems to be somebody honestly trying to

1611
01:13:21,050 --> 01:13:18,660
express what happened to them that's as

1612
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:21,060
far as you can go right I think so I

1613
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:22,920
think the problem we haven't are dealing

1614
01:13:28,130 --> 01:13:25,530
with these things is that we're set in

1615
01:13:30,110 --> 01:13:28,140
this kind of binary thinking something

1616
01:13:33,620 --> 01:13:30,120
is or it isn't and we're dealing with

1617
01:13:35,900 --> 01:13:33,630
things that are kind of like that had

1618
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:35,910
something of the quality of dreams and

1619
01:13:39,890 --> 01:13:37,890
something the quality of real things

1620
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:39,900
that we encountering quotidian reality

1621
01:13:44,930 --> 01:13:42,000
the problem we have with this is that we

1622
01:13:48,530 --> 01:13:44,940
just don't have the imagination to

1623
01:13:51,470 --> 01:13:48,540
conceive of the really really fantastic

1624
01:13:54,530 --> 01:13:51,480
nature of these things because it just

1625
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:54,540
defies our intuitive understanding of

1626
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,370
how things work for example we assume

1627
01:14:01,340 --> 01:13:58,560
that events and experiences are

1628
01:14:03,290 --> 01:14:01,350
synonymous what if they're not but if

1629
01:14:06,440 --> 01:14:03,300
there are things that our experiences in

1630
01:14:09,050 --> 01:14:06,450
genuinely puzzling experiences that

1631
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:09,060
aren't events and I think we have to

1632
01:14:14,660 --> 01:14:10,880
think like that when we're dealing with

1633
01:14:17,060 --> 01:14:14,670
like the ghostly quadrupeds that

1634
01:14:19,070 --> 01:14:17,070
appeared in my front lawn even I who has

1635
01:14:20,930 --> 01:14:19,080
spent my whole life studying these

1636
01:14:22,970 --> 01:14:20,940
things reading about them talking to

1637
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:22,980
people interviewing people it took me

1638
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:24,780
weeks before I could accept that I had

1639
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:26,370
seen something extraordinary

1640
01:14:31,580 --> 01:14:29,130
we're just socially programmed not to

1641
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:31,590
deal with these things or to laugh at

1642
01:14:36,230 --> 01:14:34,050
people who claim otherwise do you think

1643
01:14:38,210 --> 01:14:36,240
then and maybe Phyllis you can add your

1644
01:14:39,730 --> 01:14:38,220
comments to this do you think then that

1645
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:39,740
a lot of people who read fate magazine

1646
01:14:44,210 --> 01:14:42,330
use it to validate their

1647
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:44,220
experiences they pick up the magazine

1648
01:14:47,630 --> 01:14:47,040
they see Oh somebody else had this

1649
01:14:51,530 --> 01:14:47,640
happen

1650
01:14:54,050 --> 01:14:51,540
to Phyllis sure I would like to comment

1651
01:14:56,090 --> 01:14:54,060
on you know best paranormal things I

1652
01:14:59,060 --> 01:14:56,100
think the heart and soul of fate

1653
01:15:02,000 --> 01:14:59,070
magazine are the true mystic experiences

1654
01:15:03,860 --> 01:15:02,010
and my proof of survival stories about

1655
01:15:07,190 --> 01:15:03,870
people who have had extraordinary

1656
01:15:09,530 --> 01:15:07,200
experiences have seen things and have

1657
01:15:12,050 --> 01:15:09,540
communicated with people after they have

1658
01:15:15,170 --> 01:15:12,060
died and I really believe that's why

1659
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:15,180
faith has existed as long as it has is

1660
01:15:19,220 --> 01:15:17,250
the big thing life after that we want

1661
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:19,230
assurance we're not when we die we're

1662
01:15:24,380 --> 01:15:21,450
not just going to disappear in a puff of

1663
01:15:25,970 --> 01:15:24,390
dust and that's it that the soul lives

1664
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:25,980
on I mean there's thousands and

1665
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:28,530
thousands of stories that are similar in

1666
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:31,170
the content the details are vastly

1667
01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:32,880
different but the content is different

1668
01:15:38,810 --> 01:15:35,580
I'd like to quickly share one of my

1669
01:15:40,970 --> 01:15:38,820
stories my partner my life partner David

1670
01:15:43,100 --> 01:15:40,980
Godwin who was the managing editor and

1671
01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:43,110
he was really the brains of fate I was

1672
01:15:48,290 --> 01:15:46,140
in the mouth and he was the scholar and

1673
01:15:51,790 --> 01:15:48,300
brilliant and and actually put the

1674
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:51,800
magazine together he unexpectedly and

1675
01:15:56,810 --> 01:15:55,050
surprisingly died we lived together and

1676
01:15:58,190 --> 01:15:56,820
he was I went into checked his bedroom

1677
01:15:59,960 --> 01:15:58,200
to tell him turn this light off because

1678
01:16:02,630 --> 01:15:59,970
we had a guest sleeping in the living

1679
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:02,640
room a girlfriend and he was dead he was

1680
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:04,290
lying in a you know sitting in his

1681
01:16:08,780 --> 01:16:06,960
rocking chair and boom he was gone it

1682
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:08,790
just like shouldn't have happened

1683
01:16:13,940 --> 01:16:11,490
I was just absolutely horrified and

1684
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:13,950
shocked and in a bad state for about a

1685
01:16:19,700 --> 01:16:16,770
year we'll continue this story about the

1686
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:19,710
death of Phyllis Scully's partner her

1687
01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:21,930
companion and what happened after that

1688
01:16:25,820 --> 01:16:24,030
Chris O'Brien's on special assignments

1689
01:16:36,239 --> 01:16:25,830
we have Jerome Clark Phyllis called e

1690
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:39,239
the nation's largest independently owned

1691
01:16:46,279 --> 01:16:41,920
and operated talk radio network the

1692
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:46,289
genesis communications network G C n

1693
01:16:50,939 --> 01:16:48,610
graphic converter is the image

1694
01:16:53,850 --> 01:16:50,949
manipulation tool for the rest of us it

1695
01:16:56,009 --> 01:16:53,860
does not use any database you get full

1696
01:16:58,439 --> 01:16:56,019
control of all your files want to view

1697
01:17:00,959 --> 01:16:58,449
the images of a folder drag it into

1698
01:17:03,719 --> 01:17:00,969
graphic converter and a powerful browser

1699
01:17:05,790 --> 01:17:03,729
opens up to show your image files you

1700
01:17:08,069 --> 01:17:05,800
could use it for slideshows you could

1701
01:17:10,410 --> 01:17:08,079
use it to import images from digital

1702
01:17:12,569 --> 01:17:10,420
cameras or from scanners need to do some

1703
01:17:14,910 --> 01:17:12,579
image editing you can do that too in

1704
01:17:17,219 --> 01:17:14,920
graphic converter also print catalogs

1705
01:17:19,410 --> 01:17:17,229
convert from so many formats

1706
01:17:21,870 --> 01:17:19,420
I can't even list them download now to

1707
01:17:24,959 --> 01:17:21,880
see if graphic converter is good for you

1708
01:17:27,209 --> 01:17:24,969
like one and a half million other users

1709
01:17:29,580 --> 01:17:27,219
guess what you could save money when you

1710
01:17:32,459 --> 01:17:29,590
buy graphic converter use the coupon

1711
01:17:34,890 --> 01:17:32,469
code night-owl use the coupon code night

1712
01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:34,900
how to get a special price for graphic

1713
01:17:44,629 --> 01:17:38,190
converter go to Lemke soft comm mats le

1714
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:44,639
MK e soft calm Lemke soft comm le MK e

1715
01:17:57,060 --> 01:17:54,570
soft comm curious about what comes next

1716
01:17:59,219 --> 01:17:57,070
next is the feeling of vulnerability you

1717
01:18:00,930 --> 01:17:59,229
get after you arrive home to discover

1718
01:18:03,450 --> 01:18:00,940
your house has been ransacked by

1719
01:18:06,330 --> 01:18:03,460
burglars fool the bad guys with the new

1720
01:18:09,029 --> 01:18:06,340
improved fake TV you asked for it we

1721
01:18:10,979 --> 01:18:09,039
listened and we made our new fake TV

1722
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:10,989
three times brighter than our previous

1723
01:18:15,810 --> 01:18:13,449
model the brightness of our new fake TV

1724
01:18:18,299 --> 01:18:15,820
is equivalent to a 40 inch TV it

1725
01:18:21,419 --> 01:18:18,309
simulates the color and motion of a real

1726
01:18:23,430 --> 01:18:21,429
TV while you're away from home and when

1727
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:23,440
burglars think someone is home watching

1728
01:18:27,089 --> 01:18:25,360
television they're likely to pass your

1729
01:18:30,359 --> 01:18:27,099
house and move on to an easier target

1730
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:30,369
the new brighter fake TV is only 39.95

1731
01:18:35,879 --> 01:18:33,010
and includes free shipping go to fete

1732
01:18:39,509 --> 01:18:35,889
tv.com or call one eight seven seven

1733
01:18:42,419 --> 01:18:39,519
five fake TV bets eight seven seven five

1734
01:18:46,529 --> 01:18:42,429
three two five three eight eight or go

1735
01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:46,539
to fake tv.com fake TV the burglar

1736
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:48,150
deterrent

1737
01:18:53,330 --> 01:18:50,489
I will never forget the day my son

1738
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:53,340
Jeremy told me he hated me and slammed

1739
01:18:58,760 --> 01:18:56,010
the door in my face on behavioral

1740
01:19:01,070 --> 01:18:58,770
therapist Janet Lehman behavior problems

1741
01:19:03,740 --> 01:19:01,080
can turn the child you love and your

1742
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:03,750
life into a nightmare that's why my

1743
01:19:08,180 --> 01:19:05,730
husband James and I created the total

1744
01:19:10,430 --> 01:19:08,190
transformation the step-by-step program

1745
01:19:12,770 --> 01:19:10,440
that shows you how to fix the worst

1746
01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:12,780
behavior problems and get your child to

1747
01:19:16,970 --> 01:19:14,760
respect and listen to you again

1748
01:19:20,330 --> 01:19:16,980
no matter what the behavior of defiance

1749
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:20,340
backtalk angry outbursts disrespect we

1750
01:19:24,979 --> 01:19:22,530
can help you stop it now you can get the

1751
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:24,989
total transformation for free all you

1752
01:19:29,180 --> 01:19:27,120
need to do is get the program and let us

1753
01:19:30,380 --> 01:19:29,190
know how it works for you you can keep

1754
01:19:32,330 --> 01:19:30,390
it forever for free

1755
01:19:35,660 --> 01:19:32,340
a limited number of free programs

1756
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available call now 188 nine one two one

1757
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1758
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1759
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one eight eight eight nine one two one

1760
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five nine five one eight eight eight

1761
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nine one two one five nine five four

1762
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:49,710
years you've been hearing about verbal

1763
01:19:53,959 --> 01:19:51,840
healer Academy and how has remained a

1764
01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:53,969
leader in effective alternative and

1765
01:19:58,580 --> 01:19:56,580
natural medicine and education but how

1766
01:19:59,600 --> 01:19:58,590
can they continue to hold that title for

1767
01:20:02,149 --> 01:19:59,610
years on end

1768
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:02,159
the answer is high quality and huge

1769
01:20:07,459 --> 01:20:05,010
selection just visit herbal healer calm

1770
01:20:09,470 --> 01:20:07,469
and shop online or request a free

1771
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:09,480
catalog you're bound to find the

1772
01:20:13,550 --> 01:20:11,850
alternative you're looking for did you

1773
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:13,560
know that herbal healer carries the

1774
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1775
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1776
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1777
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1778
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1779
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herbal wheeler even has natural mineral

1780
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1781
01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:30,870
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1782
01:20:34,550 --> 01:20:32,880
peek at their online calendar and you're

1783
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:34,560
sure to find everything you need and

1784
01:20:39,700 --> 01:20:37,130
maybe something you didn't realize

1785
01:20:41,530 --> 01:20:39,710
visit herbal healer calm and don't

1786
01:20:44,110 --> 01:20:41,540
forget to sign up for the free herbal

1787
01:21:05,320 --> 01:20:44,120
healer newsletter verbal healer calm

1788
01:21:07,180 --> 01:21:05,330
working with the power of nature drum

1789
01:21:09,670 --> 01:21:07,190
Clark and Phyllis called II joining us

1790
01:21:11,950 --> 01:21:09,680
and Phyllis who's editor publisher of

1791
01:21:15,490 --> 01:21:11,960
fate was reporting about how she

1792
01:21:18,430 --> 01:21:15,500
discovered that her partner her life

1793
01:21:20,130 --> 01:21:18,440
partner had died suddenly how old was he

1794
01:21:24,340 --> 01:21:20,140
when this happened

1795
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:24,350
72 about that's not a hold anymore no no

1796
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:28,010
it was I mean his mom lived to 97 he was

1797
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:31,250
supposed to live forever too because the

1798
01:21:36,430 --> 01:21:33,530
longevity his aunt was like over a

1799
01:21:38,170 --> 01:21:36,440
hundred so yeah it was a total shock

1800
01:21:40,540 --> 01:21:38,180
be that as it may it was it was a

1801
01:21:42,670 --> 01:21:40,550
horrible experience at the next morning

1802
01:21:44,230 --> 01:21:42,680
the dogs still have to go for their walk

1803
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:44,240
right you know they have to have their

1804
01:21:49,660 --> 01:21:46,730
constitutional so I took them out in the

1805
01:21:51,550 --> 01:21:49,670
woods were we have this path and I kept

1806
01:21:54,460 --> 01:21:51,560
hearing the word Halima

1807
01:21:55,540 --> 01:21:54,470
Salima Polina of course that's Aleister

1808
01:21:57,490 --> 01:21:55,550
Crowley

1809
01:22:02,080 --> 01:21:57,500
system of magic and I didn't what the

1810
01:22:03,340 --> 01:22:02,090
heck so I came back to the house and was

1811
01:22:05,290 --> 01:22:03,350
messing around in the computer because

1812
01:22:07,330 --> 01:22:05,300
David had everything all the information

1813
01:22:09,820 --> 01:22:07,340
on his computer well it turned out

1814
01:22:13,630 --> 01:22:09,830
Salima was the password to get onto his

1815
01:22:15,970 --> 01:22:13,640
email so he communicated that to me you

1816
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:15,980
know except he kept saying it over and

1817
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:17,570
over in my head it was like a broken

1818
01:22:23,290 --> 01:22:21,290
record and and interesting and and I I

1819
01:22:26,290 --> 01:22:23,300
guess I'm less of a skeptic than Jerry

1820
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:26,300
as Jerry's a very pragmatic and I I'm

1821
01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:29,090
more an experiential person I've had a

1822
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:31,490
lot of really strange experiences and

1823
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:34,730
and I grew up to be a skeptical farm

1824
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:37,850
girl so one when I have an experience I

1825
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:40,370
pay attention to it but anyway

1826
01:22:48,610 --> 01:22:45,890
David via a medium is said that he wants

1827
01:22:50,859 --> 01:22:48,620
to document life after death and that's

1828
01:22:54,399 --> 01:22:50,869
really what the magazine was about so

1829
01:22:58,060 --> 01:22:54,409
he is continuing to communicate with me

1830
01:22:59,799 --> 01:22:58,070
and directly and also through a really

1831
01:23:03,040 --> 01:22:59,809
wonderful medium here in the Twin Cities

1832
01:23:06,100 --> 01:23:03,050
and he's open for any questions and he

1833
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:06,110
will answer them from his level of

1834
01:23:08,859 --> 01:23:08,090
understanding in the spirit world it's

1835
01:23:11,409 --> 01:23:08,869
pretty cool

1836
01:23:13,929 --> 01:23:11,419
I hear him behind me talking quite often

1837
01:23:16,389 --> 01:23:13,939
now we have some people in our forums

1838
01:23:18,369 --> 01:23:16,399
who are skeptical about such things so

1839
01:23:20,379 --> 01:23:18,379
how did you validate that this medium

1840
01:23:23,049 --> 01:23:20,389
was actually in communication with David

1841
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:23,059
well one thing that she's actually I've

1842
01:23:28,060 --> 01:23:24,800
talked to probably three or four

1843
01:23:30,250 --> 01:23:28,070
different mediums and they the fact that

1844
01:23:32,259 --> 01:23:30,260
they say similar things and and one of

1845
01:23:34,719 --> 01:23:32,269
them said you know I'm still a sloth

1846
01:23:36,939 --> 01:23:34,729
well David was kind of overweight and

1847
01:23:39,219 --> 01:23:36,949
kind of pudgy and and kind of

1848
01:23:42,189 --> 01:23:39,229
slow-moving he uses his brain more than

1849
01:23:43,629 --> 01:23:42,199
he did his physical body and I don't

1850
01:23:46,119 --> 01:23:43,639
know how any of them would have known

1851
01:23:48,069 --> 01:23:46,129
that he was a sloth I mean we teased him

1852
01:23:50,909 --> 01:23:48,079
and called him a sloth all the time and

1853
01:23:54,339 --> 01:23:50,919
in the fact that he you know he

1854
01:23:56,319 --> 01:23:54,349
communicated the password and I have an

1855
01:23:58,600 --> 01:23:56,329
intern here who is learning to format

1856
01:24:01,509 --> 01:23:58,610
books and she couldn't figure out how to

1857
01:24:03,909 --> 01:24:01,519
do it using a QuarkXPress and and she

1858
01:24:06,580 --> 01:24:03,919
felt David behind her telling use this

1859
01:24:09,759 --> 01:24:06,590
master list use this and and and she did

1860
01:24:10,959 --> 01:24:09,769
what she heard and it worked and those

1861
01:24:13,810 --> 01:24:10,969
are a couple

1862
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:13,820
yeah his case excuse character seems to

1863
01:24:19,359 --> 01:24:17,570
come through very clear who he was now

1864
01:24:22,209 --> 01:24:19,369
you've got to run the magazine yourself

1865
01:24:24,250 --> 01:24:22,219
how do you keep it going well I didn't

1866
01:24:27,069 --> 01:24:24,260
for a while for a year I just kind of

1867
01:24:30,779 --> 01:24:27,079
kind of shut down but I have some

1868
01:24:33,790 --> 01:24:30,789
wonderful wonderful interns here who are

1869
01:24:35,739 --> 01:24:33,800
healthy so you're in the process of kind

1870
01:24:36,819 --> 01:24:35,749
of catching up to schedule and get

1871
01:24:39,399 --> 01:24:36,829
anything exactly

1872
01:24:42,489 --> 01:24:39,409
of course and things are just kind of

1873
01:24:44,589 --> 01:24:42,499
falling into place and I like to think I

1874
01:24:47,229 --> 01:24:44,599
have some some help from the other side

1875
01:24:50,109 --> 01:24:47,239
wherever it's coming from you know I

1876
01:24:51,879 --> 01:24:50,119
want to say something here a couple of

1877
01:24:54,189 --> 01:24:51,889
things first of all I agree with Louis

1878
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:54,199
entirely that true mystic experiences

1879
01:24:57,689 --> 01:24:56,090
put the survival are at the heart of the

1880
01:25:00,189 --> 01:24:57,699
magazine and they always have been

1881
01:25:03,129 --> 01:25:00,199
absolutely right about that second thing

1882
01:25:05,679 --> 01:25:03,139
is that I she referred to me as a

1883
01:25:07,989 --> 01:25:05,689
skeptic I I don't think of myself as a

1884
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:07,999
skeptic I was just describing the way

1885
01:25:13,419 --> 01:25:11,090
that he extraordinary phenomena come to

1886
01:25:14,830 --> 01:25:13,429
us and what their characteristics are I

1887
01:25:16,659 --> 01:25:14,840
don't doubt at all that there are

1888
01:25:17,529 --> 01:25:16,669
extraordinary phenomena I've experienced

1889
01:25:20,259 --> 01:25:17,539
in myself

1890
01:25:24,969 --> 01:25:20,269
it's just that I'm kind of agnostic

1891
01:25:27,929 --> 01:25:24,979
about you know what what exactly they

1892
01:25:30,759 --> 01:25:27,939
are I think that they are so far beyond

1893
01:25:34,149 --> 01:25:30,769
the knowledge currently available to

1894
01:25:37,419 --> 01:25:34,159
listed about all we can talk about when

1895
01:25:40,449 --> 01:25:37,429
we talk about them is kind of do

1896
01:25:41,709 --> 01:25:40,459
describe how they happened what they're

1897
01:25:45,399 --> 01:25:41,719
but they're like what their

1898
01:25:48,899 --> 01:25:45,409
characteristics are and I just think

1899
01:25:51,330 --> 01:25:48,909
that we have to be cautious about

1900
01:25:53,529 --> 01:25:51,340
conclusions but there's no question that

1901
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:53,539
extraordinary phenomena occur all the

1902
01:25:58,959 --> 01:25:56,449
time to all kinds of people and I'm

1903
01:25:59,979 --> 01:25:58,969
always open-minded like when Phil is

1904
01:26:03,040 --> 01:25:59,989
talking about David

1905
01:26:05,409 --> 01:26:03,050
now these that I have great respect for

1906
01:26:08,259 --> 01:26:05,419
fellows his opinion and I I listen to

1907
01:26:10,089 --> 01:26:08,269
what she's saying and I may very well be

1908
01:26:12,699 --> 01:26:10,099
right about all this she knows a lot

1909
01:26:14,709 --> 01:26:12,709
more about her and David in their life

1910
01:26:17,699 --> 01:26:14,719
together and his personality than I will

1911
01:26:20,109 --> 01:26:17,709
ever know Phyllis let's go back to your

1912
01:26:21,969 --> 01:26:20,119
childhood you said you've experienced

1913
01:26:24,819 --> 01:26:21,979
lots of unusual things throughout your

1914
01:26:27,279 --> 01:26:24,829
life starting when can you give us an

1915
01:26:32,770 --> 01:26:27,289
example or two probably about five years

1916
01:26:35,919 --> 01:26:32,780
old okay I slept in a little bedroom and

1917
01:26:39,849 --> 01:26:35,929
our little fire old farmhouse off the

1918
01:26:42,819 --> 01:26:39,859
living room and every night I would wake

1919
01:26:45,790 --> 01:26:42,829
up and I would see this image standing

1920
01:26:48,339 --> 01:26:45,800
in the doorway it scared the ever-loving

1921
01:26:50,109 --> 01:26:48,349
crap out of me I was just absolutely

1922
01:26:53,139 --> 01:26:50,119
terrified because where I was sure this

1923
01:26:55,569 --> 01:26:53,149
white image was coming to hurt me or

1924
01:26:58,060 --> 01:26:55,579
kill me or do something bad so I would

1925
01:27:00,429 --> 01:26:58,070
shut my eyes and jump out of bed and run

1926
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:00,439
in the other room and jump in bed with

1927
01:27:06,669 --> 01:27:02,449
my mom and dad and Celeste I hated

1928
01:27:09,069 --> 01:27:06,679
heeded me having a little bat kid crawl

1929
01:27:11,500 --> 01:27:09,079
in bed with them for their marital life

1930
01:27:14,140 --> 01:27:11,510
but anyway I was

1931
01:27:16,450 --> 01:27:14,150
years I would see this this is this

1932
01:27:18,729 --> 01:27:16,460
image there and then when I was sent of

1933
01:27:20,740 --> 01:27:18,739
my 25 or something and came back up home

1934
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:20,750
in North Dakota to visit the folks and

1935
01:27:26,410 --> 01:27:24,170
and talking about my experiences in that

1936
01:27:28,779 --> 01:27:26,420
room and and they said oh yeah your

1937
01:27:31,299 --> 01:27:28,789
grandfather died in that room and like

1938
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:31,309
guys they would have told me that I

1939
01:27:35,620 --> 01:27:34,010
thought I was a mean mean creature or

1940
01:27:37,450 --> 01:27:35,630
something that was was really going to

1941
01:27:40,450 --> 01:27:37,460
hurt me but really it was probably just

1942
01:27:42,399 --> 01:27:40,460
my grandfather and then I got it kind of

1943
01:27:44,459 --> 01:27:42,409
interested in spiritualism studied that

1944
01:27:47,109 --> 01:27:44,469
for a little while and went to a

1945
01:27:49,540 --> 01:27:47,119
spiritualist camp and got to go to a

1946
01:27:51,759 --> 01:27:49,550
seance oh then we got the right idea to

1947
01:27:53,890 --> 01:27:51,769
have a sans and our old family farmhouse

1948
01:27:59,379 --> 01:27:53,900
because we pretty much felt the place

1949
01:28:04,569 --> 01:27:59,389
was haunted we blacked out all the

1950
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:04,579
windows hung blankets over them and we

1951
01:28:12,549 --> 01:28:08,210
had a good supply of beer so we had some

1952
01:28:14,979 --> 01:28:12,559
bottle courage and set of Prayer and sat

1953
01:28:18,549 --> 01:28:14,989
around this wooden table and oh my gosh

1954
01:28:20,919 --> 01:28:18,559
we had some strange phenomena my

1955
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:20,929
grandfather came through my daughter was

1956
01:28:25,649 --> 01:28:23,840
in college at the time and we had all

1957
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:25,659
our hands on the table

1958
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:28,250
fingertips to fingertips touching so we

1959
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:31,610
formed a connection with all and both my

1960
01:28:37,870 --> 01:28:34,130
daughter and I felt my grandfather's

1961
01:28:39,729 --> 01:28:37,880
hands on the top of our heads but like a

1962
01:28:41,979 --> 01:28:39,739
calloused hand that and it was like

1963
01:28:44,379 --> 01:28:41,989
pressure there it was really a powerful

1964
01:28:46,450 --> 01:28:44,389
feeling and one of the girls was like

1965
01:28:49,419 --> 01:28:46,460
almost pulled under the table by

1966
01:28:55,870 --> 01:28:49,429
probably some less desirable entity and

1967
01:29:00,370 --> 01:28:55,880
I was able to speak with with the energy

1968
01:29:02,319 --> 01:29:00,380
of my my brother's mother-in-law well I

1969
01:29:04,750 --> 01:29:02,329
guess my sister-in-law's mother she had

1970
01:29:07,959 --> 01:29:04,760
died of a she had a stroke and I was

1971
01:29:10,990 --> 01:29:07,969
like you know groaning I couldn't talk

1972
01:29:13,750 --> 01:29:11,000
as I I was I guess trying to speak

1973
01:29:15,339 --> 01:29:13,760
through her vocal cords and she wanted

1974
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:15,349
to tell the grandkids that she loved

1975
01:29:23,649 --> 01:29:20,570
them so we we had lots started out with

1976
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:23,659
with ghosts in the old house and it was

1977
01:29:26,729 --> 01:29:25,090
a my

1978
01:29:28,620 --> 01:29:26,739
of courage if you had to sleep in the

1979
01:29:30,419 --> 01:29:28,630
ghost room I think there's some kind of

1980
01:29:32,370 --> 01:29:30,429
a vortex or portal there because pretty

1981
01:29:36,930 --> 01:29:32,380
much everybody who slept in that room

1982
01:29:39,270 --> 01:29:36,940
had really strange experiences does that

1983
01:29:41,970 --> 01:29:39,280
become sort of a game I dare you to

1984
01:29:46,500 --> 01:29:41,980
sleep in that room now we wouldn't tell

1985
01:29:49,140 --> 01:29:46,510
him about it sometimes we would be

1986
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:49,150
innocent about it and tell him you know

1987
01:29:55,260 --> 01:29:51,520
you get to sleep sleep it in his bedroom

1988
01:29:57,240 --> 01:29:55,270
and and really my nephew grew up in that

1989
01:29:59,729 --> 01:29:57,250
house and he didn't have a choice he had

1990
01:30:01,680 --> 01:29:59,739
to sleep in there in that room and and I

1991
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:01,690
was you know not that much older I had

1992
01:30:07,379 --> 01:30:04,000
gone away to live someplace else but but

1993
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:07,389
anyway Darren had had to sleep in there

1994
01:30:11,070 --> 01:30:09,489
and he would cry all the time every

1995
01:30:13,770 --> 01:30:11,080
night because there was there was

1996
01:30:16,169 --> 01:30:13,780
something going on oh boy we're good to

1997
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:16,179
do break it now and get back to more of

1998
01:30:21,359 --> 01:30:19,210
this discussion with Jerome Clark and

1999
01:30:23,330 --> 01:30:21,369
Phyllis called E about fate magazine and

2000
01:30:26,609 --> 01:30:23,340
about their personal experiences

2001
01:30:31,100 --> 01:30:26,619
opinions and more you're in the para

2002
01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:36,170
[Music]

2003
01:30:43,070 --> 01:30:39,680
we are the premier independent talk

2004
01:30:47,660 --> 01:30:43,080
radio network the genesis communications

2005
01:30:49,100 --> 01:30:47,670
network G C n first game attack of the

2006
01:30:51,140 --> 01:30:49,110
rock codes and it was a critically

2007
01:30:53,150 --> 01:30:51,150
acclaimed success and now there is the

2008
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:53,160
coming of the protectors a former

2009
01:30:57,530 --> 01:30:55,290
military intelligence man is contacted

2010
01:31:00,080 --> 01:30:57,540
by a space woman in a dream a dream that

2011
01:31:01,700 --> 01:31:00,090
turns out to be a nightmare because evil

2012
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:01,710
forces on our distant planet are

2013
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:02,970
planning to conquer the earth

2014
01:31:08,060 --> 01:31:05,610
this is gripping science fiction of the

2015
01:31:10,130 --> 01:31:08,070
classic kind attack of the rock codes

2016
01:31:12,710 --> 01:31:10,140
and the coming of the protectors find

2017
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:12,720
out more and Rocco is calm that's rock

2018
01:31:18,350 --> 01:31:16,650
oh it's our Ock oids calm sea here's

2019
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:18,360
what happened I was placing an order

2020
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:21,210
online the site went down it just

2021
01:31:25,670 --> 01:31:23,850
stopped responding it took hours before

2022
01:31:27,470 --> 01:31:25,680
it returned but I'd already placed the

2023
01:31:30,050 --> 01:31:27,480
order with another company if your site

2024
01:31:31,610 --> 01:31:30,060
goes down you could lose business and if

2025
01:31:33,980 --> 01:31:31,620
you have a business or personal site

2026
01:31:37,700 --> 01:31:33,990
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2027
01:31:40,130 --> 01:31:37,710
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

2028
01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:40,140
hosted on one of the most reliable

2029
01:31:47,660 --> 01:31:42,960
networks in the world check it out

2030
01:31:49,460 --> 01:31:47,670
a web com that's iWeb calm this alert

2031
01:31:51,830 --> 01:31:49,470
just came in this special announcement

2032
01:31:53,900 --> 01:31:51,840
is for business owners and leaders of

2033
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:53,910
organizations who've been waiting for

2034
01:31:58,430 --> 01:31:56,730
the right time to build general steel

2035
01:32:00,200 --> 01:31:58,440
has made it impossible to wait any

2036
01:32:02,390 --> 01:32:00,210
longer with rock-bottom prices that

2037
01:32:04,610 --> 01:32:02,400
could save you thousands that's right

2038
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:04,620
general steel America's leader in pre

2039
01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,510
engineered structures is offering

2040
01:32:10,940 --> 01:32:08,400
buildings at prices you will never see

2041
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:10,950
again don't miss these prices a 50 by

2042
01:32:16,910 --> 01:32:14,010
100 for under $30,000 you heard right

2043
01:32:18,770 --> 01:32:16,920
that's 5000 square feet under $30,000

2044
01:32:20,990 --> 01:32:18,780
manufacturers if you need a larger

2045
01:32:22,340 --> 01:32:21,000
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

2046
01:32:24,260 --> 01:32:22,350
building for a hundred and twenty nine

2047
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:24,270
thousand you can't afford to rent with

2048
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:26,610
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

2049
01:32:29,930 --> 01:32:28,170
church building for under sixty nine

2050
01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:29,940
thousand dollars with the economy

2051
01:32:33,980 --> 01:32:31,860
improving and interest rate still at

2052
01:32:37,670 --> 01:32:33,990
historic lows you can't afford to wait

2053
01:32:39,710 --> 01:32:37,680
so call 866 91 steel plucking your price

2054
01:32:42,380 --> 01:32:39,720
now take delivery and spring eight six

2055
01:32:48,009 --> 01:32:42,390
six ninety one steel that's eight six

2056
01:32:53,419 --> 01:32:51,049
for over five years you've been hearing

2057
01:32:55,879 --> 01:32:53,429
about the burka guy so you may know a

2058
01:32:58,250 --> 01:32:55,889
few things about him for example you are

2059
01:33:00,199 --> 01:32:58,260
well aware of the superior quality and

2060
01:33:02,569 --> 01:33:00,209
effectiveness of berkey water filters

2061
01:33:04,580 --> 01:33:02,579
and accessories but did you know the

2062
01:33:06,469 --> 01:33:04,590
burpees have had independent lab tests

2063
01:33:08,839 --> 01:33:06,479
done to prove just how effective they

2064
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:08,849
are it's true and he can email you the

2065
01:33:13,819 --> 01:33:11,760
test results just visit go Berkey comm

2066
01:33:15,859 --> 01:33:13,829
you may also know that the Berkey guy

2067
01:33:17,959 --> 01:33:15,869
has helped tens of thousands of people

2068
01:33:20,449 --> 01:33:17,969
get better prepared now here's something

2069
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:20,459
you may not know go Berkey dot-com has

2070
01:33:25,129 --> 01:33:23,130
amazing specials and deals all the time

2071
01:33:27,469 --> 01:33:25,139
on a wide variety of survival and

2072
01:33:30,169 --> 01:33:27,479
preparedness products most ready to ship

2073
01:33:32,660 --> 01:33:30,179
same-day visit the Berkey guy at go

2074
01:33:35,209 --> 01:33:32,670
perky calm and be sure to click the red

2075
01:33:37,489 --> 01:33:35,219
products on sale now button you can

2076
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:37,499
always call toll-free eight seven seven

2077
01:33:41,899 --> 01:33:39,449
eight eight six three six five three

2078
01:33:45,049 --> 01:33:41,909
again that's eight seven seven eight

2079
01:33:49,129 --> 01:33:45,059
eight six three six five three goldberg

2080
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:49,139
e.com home of a perky guy oh my back is

2081
01:33:54,319 --> 01:33:52,170
out again hi dr. workman with wellspring

2082
01:33:56,750 --> 01:33:54,329
spinal care if you're experiencing neck

2083
01:33:58,459 --> 01:33:56,760
mid or lower back pain this information

2084
01:34:00,770 --> 01:33:58,469
is for you one of the complaints that I

2085
01:34:03,049 --> 01:34:00,780
hear is patients receive their typical

2086
01:34:05,029 --> 01:34:03,059
adjustment only having to repeat them as

2087
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:05,039
the pain returns putting the bones back

2088
01:34:08,779 --> 01:34:07,050
in place is only half of the battle at

2089
01:34:11,390 --> 01:34:08,789
wellspring spinal care we have the

2090
01:34:13,879 --> 01:34:11,400
entire solution we use the Nuka approach

2091
01:34:15,770 --> 01:34:13,889
utilizing 3-dimensional x-rays and

2092
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:15,780
gentle touch technology to deliver

2093
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:18,090
specific correction we then design a

2094
01:34:22,100 --> 01:34:19,860
custom nutritional supplement program

2095
01:34:24,259 --> 01:34:22,110
which provides essential nutrients

2096
01:34:25,819 --> 01:34:24,269
targeting the areas of concern with a

2097
01:34:28,100 --> 01:34:25,829
Nuke approach and proper nutrition

2098
01:34:30,020 --> 01:34:28,110
you'll be on your way to a faster and

2099
01:34:32,060 --> 01:34:30,030
more permanent recovery to get you on

2100
01:34:36,890 --> 01:34:32,070
the road to wellness visit dr. Ortman

2101
01:34:39,199 --> 01:34:36,900
calm that's dr. o RT ma n calm or call

2102
01:34:41,750 --> 01:34:39,209
us today nine five two three oh three

2103
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:41,760
ninety one twenty four that's nine five

2104
01:34:45,949 --> 01:34:44,010
two three oh three ninety one twenty

2105
01:34:51,980 --> 01:34:45,959
four wellspring spinal care chiropractic

2106
01:34:57,210 --> 01:34:54,930
hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

2107
01:34:59,870 --> 01:34:57,220
you're listening to the podcast the gold

2108
01:35:12,129 --> 01:34:59,880
standard of paranormal radio

2109
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:14,629
we're talking about primarily fate

2110
01:35:19,009 --> 01:35:16,530
magazine well get into the state of

2111
01:35:23,270 --> 01:35:19,019
paranormal research as we continue with

2112
01:35:27,140 --> 01:35:23,280
Jerome Clark and Phyllis call D so these

2113
01:35:31,279 --> 01:35:27,150
days correct me if I'm wrong we have

2114
01:35:33,069 --> 01:35:31,289
faith magazine as a publication but

2115
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:33,079
there aren't that many publications

2116
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:36,239
anymore I cover these subjects their

2117
01:35:40,100 --> 01:35:37,130
blogs

2118
01:35:42,529 --> 01:35:40,110
sometimes you see like Huffington Post

2119
01:35:43,759 --> 01:35:42,539
has a UFO column every so often but do

2120
01:35:47,719 --> 01:35:43,769
you think you're part of a dying breed

2121
01:35:50,449 --> 01:35:47,729
Phyllis well I guess his faith is meant

2122
01:35:53,390 --> 01:35:50,459
to be we continue on we will have

2123
01:35:56,899 --> 01:35:53,400
support and help too to keep it going

2124
01:36:01,509 --> 01:35:56,909
so I am I'm willing to be there and help

2125
01:36:04,969 --> 01:36:01,519
as long as it's it's viable and it's

2126
01:36:07,969 --> 01:36:04,979
surviving it seems like there's a little

2127
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:07,979
resurgence now it is still available on

2128
01:36:13,009 --> 01:36:11,010
a regular newsstand no no the newsstand

2129
01:36:15,620 --> 01:36:13,019
is like throwing away several thousand

2130
01:36:18,979 --> 01:36:15,630
dollars an issue we should explain what

2131
01:36:21,529 --> 01:36:18,989
this is all about because unless you are

2132
01:36:24,290 --> 01:36:21,539
really big publisher with a big budget

2133
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:24,300
small magazines cannot make it on the

2134
01:36:28,759 --> 01:36:25,650
newsstand that's been the case for a

2135
01:36:31,879 --> 01:36:28,769
long time where you basically had to

2136
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:31,889
send out thousands of magazines be lucky

2137
01:36:37,370 --> 01:36:35,760
if you sold 20 or 30% of them and the

2138
01:36:38,839 --> 01:36:37,380
rest they didn't just ship them back to

2139
01:36:42,919 --> 01:36:38,849
you they send back the covers or an

2140
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:42,929
affidavit to say hey we only sold 20% of

2141
01:36:46,909 --> 01:36:45,119
what you sent us here's your payment and

2142
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:46,919
the rest of the magazines were thrown

2143
01:36:54,199 --> 01:36:51,449
out sure right so it gets to be a huge

2144
01:36:58,459 --> 01:36:54,209
loss every issue well I mean sure is

2145
01:37:00,830 --> 01:36:58,469
that they end up at places that sell use

2146
01:37:04,100 --> 01:37:00,840
books you see these magazines and you

2147
01:37:05,839 --> 01:37:04,110
wonder where they get them from and did

2148
01:37:09,259 --> 01:37:05,849
the publisher of those magazines get

2149
01:37:11,659 --> 01:37:09,269
paid for them no no he'd get ripped off

2150
01:37:14,029 --> 01:37:11,669
I used to buy comic books when I was

2151
01:37:16,339 --> 01:37:14,039
growing up in North Dakota and the

2152
01:37:18,409 --> 01:37:16,349
little local drugstore and they had the

2153
01:37:20,870 --> 01:37:18,419
covers ripped off so you got three for a

2154
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:20,880
dime or something and of course there

2155
01:37:29,300 --> 01:37:23,850
were returns that maybe somebody else

2156
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:29,310
had gotten paid for here's kind of a

2157
01:37:33,650 --> 01:37:31,440
disenchanted former reader let's just

2158
01:37:36,350 --> 01:37:33,660
get his comment you can give me a

2159
01:37:38,300 --> 01:37:36,360
response his name is Dave

2160
01:37:42,170 --> 01:37:38,310
M he's been a member of the power cast

2161
01:37:43,460 --> 01:37:42,180
forum since December of 2007 and he's

2162
01:37:44,780 --> 01:37:43,470
going to continue until he gets it right

2163
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:44,790
I'm kidding

2164
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:49,050
he says Phyllis I am sorry to say I was

2165
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:52,050
a regular reader of Faith magazine but I

2166
01:37:57,260 --> 01:37:54,570
became disenchanted with the magazine

2167
01:38:00,380 --> 01:37:57,270
the size of the magazine became smaller

2168
01:38:03,410 --> 01:38:00,390
and then my local Barnes & Noble dropped

2169
01:38:05,780 --> 01:38:03,420
it completely I lost interest after that

2170
01:38:08,030 --> 01:38:05,790
do you really think a digital version

2171
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:08,040
will increase your readership and before

2172
01:38:12,050 --> 01:38:10,170
we go on Phyllis just explained that

2173
01:38:15,440 --> 01:38:12,060
it's no longer available from the

2174
01:38:19,820 --> 01:38:15,450
newsstands correct it is not on the

2175
01:38:21,890 --> 01:38:19,830
newsstands now we are certainly will

2176
01:38:23,900 --> 01:38:21,900
consider getting it back on the

2177
01:38:26,330 --> 01:38:23,910
newsstands when we have caught up to our

2178
01:38:28,670 --> 01:38:26,340
regular schedule but we're running like

2179
01:38:30,620 --> 01:38:28,680
several months behind on our issues and

2180
01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:30,630
basically with newsstands what they do

2181
01:38:35,300 --> 01:38:32,880
is they take off the magazine they

2182
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:35,310
remove it from sale when it hits the

2183
01:38:39,530 --> 01:38:38,010
cover date right after cover day is four

2184
01:38:43,550 --> 01:38:39,540
months ago it never goes on the

2185
01:38:45,580 --> 01:38:43,560
newsstand exactly so what do you say to

2186
01:38:47,690 --> 01:38:45,590
this person to get them interested again

2187
01:38:49,850 --> 01:38:47,700
well I'd be happy to send them a free

2188
01:38:52,340 --> 01:38:49,860
issue or if they want to log on to our

2189
01:38:55,460 --> 01:38:52,350
website they can get a free e issue and

2190
01:38:59,080 --> 01:38:55,470
see if they like the content now the

2191
01:39:04,250 --> 01:38:59,090
content has always been faithfully

2192
01:39:06,500 --> 01:39:04,260
interesting but we we just can't can't

2193
01:39:08,150 --> 01:39:06,510
have it on the newsstand until we we get

2194
01:39:10,940 --> 01:39:08,160
caught up and that's what our goal is

2195
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:10,950
this year to get to become current again

2196
01:39:14,630 --> 01:39:12,810
and then we'll relook at the newsstand

2197
01:39:17,030 --> 01:39:14,640
but really the best thing is to

2198
01:39:19,630 --> 01:39:17,040
subscribe to the magazine that's the

2199
01:39:23,540 --> 01:39:19,640
majority of our readers that they've

2200
01:39:25,430 --> 01:39:23,550
always been subscription driven as she

2201
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:25,440
said newsstands it's very difficult

2202
01:39:32,210 --> 01:39:29,760
here's one from Angelo he's been a

2203
01:39:35,620 --> 01:39:32,220
member of our forum since 2009 a former

2204
01:39:37,220 --> 01:39:35,630
forum moderator and Angelo is a skeptic

2205
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:37,230
okay

2206
01:39:42,290 --> 01:39:39,930
I'm gonna get that out of the way both

2207
01:39:45,350 --> 01:39:42,300
of you Phyllis and Jerry what's the most

2208
01:39:47,570 --> 01:39:45,360
bizarre story you've ever printed that

2209
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:47,580
you believe can actually be true is

2210
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:50,730
there anything that was printed that you

2211
01:39:56,150 --> 01:39:52,770
thought was the real thing that ended up

2212
01:39:57,710 --> 01:39:56,160
being debunked well Phyllis and Jerry

2213
01:40:00,890 --> 01:39:57,720
you both mentioned stuff that's been

2214
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:00,900
debunked so is that question sort of

2215
01:40:08,570 --> 01:40:04,650
answered there or what I mean you know

2216
01:40:10,190 --> 01:40:08,580
you try your best and sometimes

2217
01:40:14,150 --> 01:40:10,200
something will slip through the cracks

2218
01:40:17,180 --> 01:40:14,160
and and then if you find out that you've

2219
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:17,190
been fooled you let your readers know

2220
01:40:24,710 --> 01:40:19,970
you tell them why you were fooled and

2221
01:40:26,570 --> 01:40:24,720
you just I think that you have to be

2222
01:40:29,330 --> 01:40:26,580
honest with your readers if you're going

2223
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:29,340
to keep your readers you have to say

2224
01:40:33,380 --> 01:40:31,530
look we're imperfect and we'll make

2225
01:40:38,170 --> 01:40:33,390
mistakes and work with us and we'll do

2226
01:40:42,020 --> 01:40:38,180
our best Phyllis mm-hmm the word bizarre

2227
01:40:45,740 --> 01:40:42,030
what do you think a bizarre story you

2228
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:45,750
think is really true well I I don't know

2229
01:40:52,130 --> 01:40:49,530
if this is provable but one of the

2230
01:40:56,770 --> 01:40:52,140
creepiest stories that I remember

2231
01:40:59,360 --> 01:40:56,780
publishing was these two gentlemen of

2232
01:41:02,030 --> 01:40:59,370
Caucasian may be from the United States

2233
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:02,040
were up in Canada on their snowmobiles

2234
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:07,489
and they met with some foul weather or

2235
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:11,330
disappeared or went over a snowbank and

2236
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:14,010
they found the body I think they found

2237
01:41:18,380 --> 01:41:15,810
both snowmobiles they found the one guy

2238
01:41:21,140 --> 01:41:18,390
the other guy they never found his body

2239
01:41:23,860 --> 01:41:21,150
only several months later they found

2240
01:41:26,150 --> 01:41:23,870
this creature so it's like he had

2241
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:26,160
shape-shifted into something that that

2242
01:41:30,440 --> 01:41:27,810
you know he was naked he was running

2243
01:41:32,810 --> 01:41:30,450
around some some entity had overtaken

2244
01:41:35,780 --> 01:41:32,820
his body and and he was still able to

2245
01:41:37,910 --> 01:41:35,790
function and move around and and several

2246
01:41:40,670 --> 01:41:37,920
people had seen him but he was like some

2247
01:41:43,550 --> 01:41:40,680
bizarre ghoulish creature that would

2248
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:43,560
that kind of creeped me out and the fact

2249
01:41:49,340 --> 01:41:45,090
that there were witnesses who actually

2250
01:41:51,020 --> 01:41:49,350
saw him on more than one occasion gives

2251
01:41:53,540 --> 01:41:51,030
it some credibility

2252
01:41:56,660 --> 01:41:53,550
that would creep me out - Jerry what

2253
01:41:58,189 --> 01:41:56,670
about you oh I couldn't answer that

2254
01:42:01,520 --> 01:41:58,199
question you know I've read about a

2255
01:42:03,859 --> 01:42:01,530
gazillion bizarre stories my life and

2256
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:03,869
they all kind of blur together I you

2257
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:06,570
know I just if I'm writing about them I

2258
01:42:10,970 --> 01:42:09,210
focus on them and but when I think about

2259
01:42:14,209 --> 01:42:10,980
the questions that you know

2260
01:42:16,700 --> 01:42:14,219
extraordinary experiences and reports

2261
01:42:19,580 --> 01:42:16,710
raised I'm really thinking more on broad

2262
01:42:22,399 --> 01:42:19,590
theoretical terms these days and I'm not

2263
01:42:25,189 --> 01:42:22,409
focusing and on specific instances it's

2264
01:42:27,229 --> 01:42:25,199
the patterns that interest me because

2265
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:27,239
it's the patterns that eventually will

2266
01:42:33,290 --> 01:42:30,239
you know it elicits an answer but in the

2267
01:42:36,140 --> 01:42:33,300
meantime just seeing what happens

2268
01:42:39,350 --> 01:42:36,150
incredible extraordinary testimony and

2269
01:42:41,779 --> 01:42:39,360
what doesn't happen is what interests me

2270
01:42:43,129 --> 01:42:41,789
and I have developed this theoretical

2271
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:43,139
system which I've talked on the show

2272
01:42:48,379 --> 01:42:46,770
about before and written about the you

2273
01:42:50,299 --> 01:42:48,389
know the difference between you know

2274
01:42:52,850 --> 01:42:50,309
events anomalies and experience

2275
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:52,860
anomalies that's what interests me I

2276
01:42:58,189 --> 01:42:55,650
just accept that people can have very

2277
01:42:59,959 --> 01:42:58,199
very strange experiences it's the

2278
01:43:02,270 --> 01:42:59,969
question of you know what do they mean

2279
01:43:05,810 --> 01:43:02,280
what do they represent what can we learn

2280
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:05,820
and infer about them and I generally I

2281
01:43:12,350 --> 01:43:08,010
just think that the living in the world

2282
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:12,360
is probably a stranger experience and

2283
01:43:18,379 --> 01:43:15,090
then we realize and the possibilities of

2284
01:43:21,740 --> 01:43:18,389
experience are much broader than the

2285
01:43:24,169 --> 01:43:21,750
narrow consensus reality focused and

2286
01:43:26,390 --> 01:43:24,179
claimed you know it's very interesting

2287
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:26,400
I'm just looking at a copy of fate

2288
01:43:32,180 --> 01:43:28,050
magazine here and this is issued number

2289
01:43:35,899 --> 01:43:32,190
723 which is July August 2013 and you

2290
01:43:38,709 --> 01:43:35,909
look at the magazine and you think how

2291
01:43:42,410 --> 01:43:38,719
the magazine looked over the years and

2292
01:43:44,510 --> 01:43:42,420
you've got it to a point where in many

2293
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:44,520
respects it's the same as the magazine

2294
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:47,610
from the 1950s which is really good yes

2295
01:43:55,339 --> 01:43:51,449
it has a very retro look mm-hmm and

2296
01:43:57,560 --> 01:43:55,349
you've kept that I guess avoided all the

2297
01:43:59,660 --> 01:43:57,570
extra things going on do you get

2298
01:44:01,640 --> 01:43:59,670
involved though much in the social

2299
01:44:02,419 --> 01:44:01,650
networking the Twitter the Facebook and

2300
01:44:04,609 --> 01:44:02,429
that kind of thing

2301
01:44:07,729 --> 01:44:04,619
I personally do

2302
01:44:10,939 --> 01:44:07,739
but some of my helpers are very aware of

2303
01:44:13,580 --> 01:44:10,949
all that I do have another creepy story

2304
01:44:15,409 --> 01:44:13,590
for you - another creepy story we have

2305
01:44:17,810 --> 01:44:15,419
about a minute before we break but let's

2306
01:44:19,969 --> 01:44:17,820
start do it let's start the creepy story

2307
01:44:21,859 --> 01:44:19,979
and if we run out of time we'll do the

2308
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:21,869
break and pick it up on the other end

2309
01:44:28,939 --> 01:44:25,050
Phyllis it's called Robert the Haunted

2310
01:44:31,389 --> 01:44:28,949
doll lives in Key West Florida and and

2311
01:44:35,119 --> 01:44:31,399
probably people have heard of this doll

2312
01:44:37,939 --> 01:44:35,129
all right but yeah it's kind of like a

2313
01:44:40,129 --> 01:44:37,949
cursed doll it sounds like there's a

2314
01:44:42,259 --> 01:44:40,139
movie or two like that isn't there like

2315
01:44:45,679 --> 01:44:42,269
Chucky or something exactly yeah this is

2316
01:44:49,310 --> 01:44:45,689
this is probably the source for the

2317
01:44:51,139 --> 01:44:49,320
Chucky movie okay now that's something

2318
01:44:53,810 --> 01:44:51,149
that I'm going to hold to the next

2319
01:44:57,679 --> 01:44:53,820
segment let's learn about a living doll

2320
01:45:01,969 --> 01:44:57,689
an evil doll about the source of the

2321
01:45:03,770 --> 01:45:01,979
Chucky stories hmm Phyllis called e is

2322
01:45:07,310 --> 01:45:03,780
the editor-in-chief and publisher of

2323
01:45:09,049 --> 01:45:07,320
fate magazine at fate mag comm if you

2324
01:45:11,089 --> 01:45:09,059
want to check it out and look at a

2325
01:45:13,790 --> 01:45:11,099
sample copy and maybe subscribe to Roman

2326
01:45:15,259 --> 01:45:13,800
Clarke UFO historian formerly worked

2327
01:45:18,529 --> 01:45:15,269
with fate and he still writes for them

2328
01:45:26,700 --> 01:45:18,539
Chris O'Brien is on special assignment

2329
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:30,939
we are America's largest independently

2330
01:45:38,319 --> 01:45:37,010
owned communications network see does

2331
01:45:39,939 --> 01:45:38,329
advertising on the Genesis

2332
01:45:41,709 --> 01:45:39,949
communications radio network actually

2333
01:45:43,239 --> 01:45:41,719
bring positive results

2334
01:45:44,859 --> 01:45:43,249
let's ask Thomas ball turn from

2335
01:45:51,339 --> 01:45:44,869
freeze-dried guy so I must talk about

2336
01:45:58,419 --> 01:45:51,349
customer service at GCM customers the

2337
01:46:00,370 --> 01:45:58,429
bottom line if you'd like to experience

2338
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:00,380
unbelievable customer service call li

2339
01:46:04,989 --> 01:46:02,090
wicked Houser at eight seven seven nine

2340
01:46:07,450 --> 01:46:04,999
nine six four three two seven extension

2341
01:46:08,979 --> 01:46:07,460
one zero seven hi this is Ted Anderson

2342
01:46:10,839 --> 01:46:08,989
have you ever wondered why banks

2343
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:10,849
stockbrokers investment advisors won't

2344
01:46:14,410 --> 01:46:12,650
talk about gold IRAs they've been

2345
01:46:16,180 --> 01:46:14,420
available since nineteen eighty six yet

2346
01:46:17,739 --> 01:46:16,190
the financial industry won't recognize

2347
01:46:20,109 --> 01:46:17,749
the value of gold for your retirement

2348
01:46:22,270 --> 01:46:20,119
goal has outperformed paper investments

2349
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:22,280
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

2350
01:46:27,729 --> 01:46:24,400
to have gold for your retirement call

2351
01:46:30,089 --> 01:46:27,739
866 to 237 don't get left behind by

2352
01:47:29,459 --> 01:46:30,099
rising inflation and low returns call

2353
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:31,930
1-866-376-8255 three four zero save

2354
01:47:36,459 --> 01:47:34,489
eight five five three four zero seventy

2355
01:47:41,860 --> 01:47:36,469
two eighty three results will vary from

2356
01:47:47,660 --> 01:47:43,930
[Applause]

2357
01:47:51,970 --> 01:47:47,670
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2358
01:47:55,980 --> 01:47:51,980
standard of paranormal radio and now

2359
01:47:58,580 --> 01:47:55,990
here's Jane Steinberg

2360
01:48:03,449 --> 01:47:58,590
[Music]

2361
01:48:05,759 --> 01:48:03,459
all righty so Phyllis scauldy and Jerry

2362
01:48:08,609 --> 01:48:05,769
Clark joining us for four more segments

2363
01:48:12,779 --> 01:48:08,619
Phyllis be saying this may have been the

2364
01:48:14,850 --> 01:48:12,789
source of the Chucky movies right and

2365
01:48:19,949 --> 01:48:14,860
you can if you're in Florida you can go

2366
01:48:22,350 --> 01:48:19,959
to the Fort East Martello Museum and and

2367
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:22,360
see it there and it started around in

2368
01:48:27,899 --> 01:48:25,690
the 1900s this four-year-old kid got a

2369
01:48:30,060 --> 01:48:27,909
doll then they called it Robert the doll

2370
01:48:32,359 --> 01:48:30,070
and it was created in his likeness it

2371
01:48:35,459 --> 01:48:32,369
looked like him and and the kid was

2372
01:48:37,709 --> 01:48:35,469
obsessed with it and he got some kind of

2373
01:48:40,199 --> 01:48:37,719
a weird fixation on the doll and blamed

2374
01:48:42,719 --> 01:48:40,209
all the naughty things on the doll and

2375
01:48:45,330 --> 01:48:42,729
then the parents heard him talking to

2376
01:48:48,209 --> 01:48:45,340
the doll and there was a different tone

2377
01:48:51,779 --> 01:48:48,219
of voice that responded and then when

2378
01:48:54,750 --> 01:48:51,789
his parents died he was still attached

2379
01:48:57,029 --> 01:48:54,760
to the doll as an adult the wife was

2380
01:48:59,069 --> 01:48:57,039
just creeped out by it she tried to lock

2381
01:49:03,989 --> 01:48:59,079
the doll in the attic and then and that

2382
01:49:06,330 --> 01:49:03,999
and the guy just went crazy he insisted

2383
01:49:09,870 --> 01:49:06,340
on keeping it so there was like like

2384
01:49:12,299 --> 01:49:09,880
shape-shifting and disfiguration and a

2385
01:49:14,609 --> 01:49:12,309
lot of the block doll up in the attic

2386
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:14,619
you could hear footsteps and diabolical

2387
01:49:19,979 --> 01:49:17,920
laughing and in the doll the next owner

2388
01:49:22,770 --> 01:49:19,989
thought the dollars are torturing her

2389
01:49:24,449 --> 01:49:22,780
and trying to kill her eventually he

2390
01:49:27,500 --> 01:49:24,459
made it to the museum where he's there

2391
01:49:31,199 --> 01:49:27,510
nobody wants to piss off the doll even

2392
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:31,209
former President Bush wrote a letter of

2393
01:49:37,290 --> 01:49:34,449
apology to it because people who see it

2394
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:37,300
and if they do anything bad and they and

2395
01:49:42,810 --> 01:49:39,280
have bad luck whether they know about

2396
01:49:46,229 --> 01:49:42,820
the dolls past or not so it's something

2397
01:49:48,540 --> 01:49:46,239
I would want to avoid because it is real

2398
01:49:52,500 --> 01:49:48,550
and they're there's many many stories of

2399
01:49:55,379 --> 01:49:52,510
its diabolical abilities or intentions

2400
01:49:58,020 --> 01:49:55,389
and they think that that the original

2401
01:50:00,779 --> 01:49:58,030
kid was given given the doll that had

2402
01:50:04,140 --> 01:50:00,789
been makin by a Jamaican woman who had

2403
01:50:06,779 --> 01:50:04,150
cast a voodoo spell on it so next time

2404
01:50:08,969 --> 01:50:06,789
you see a Chucky movie realize that some

2405
01:50:09,609 --> 01:50:08,979
of these movies is not just a couple of

2406
01:50:12,399 --> 01:50:09,619
writers and a

2407
01:50:16,089 --> 01:50:12,409
coming up with an idea they'll go into

2408
01:50:18,609 --> 01:50:16,099
folklore they'll go into stories they'll

2409
01:50:23,490 --> 01:50:18,619
take something and they will use it as

2410
01:50:27,070 --> 01:50:23,500
the basis for that movie a lot of people

2411
01:50:32,100 --> 01:50:27,080
request information for us about stories

2412
01:50:35,020 --> 01:50:32,110
for movies or TV or IDs it was said by

2413
01:50:37,330 --> 01:50:35,030
previous people that x-files Chris

2414
01:50:41,229 --> 01:50:37,340
Carter used a lot of fate stories as the

2415
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:41,239
basis for their segments but he never

2416
01:50:44,859 --> 01:50:44,330
called Jeff and said hey I'll send you a

2417
01:50:47,740 --> 01:50:44,869
check

2418
01:50:51,370 --> 01:50:47,750
oh no oh no it's a faith is the real

2419
01:50:55,540 --> 01:50:51,380
x-files okay let me ask you a question

2420
01:50:57,850 --> 01:50:55,550
here both of you now these days a lot of

2421
01:51:01,089 --> 01:50:57,860
the media coverage about strange events

2422
01:51:03,729 --> 01:51:01,099
is confined to so-called reality shows

2423
01:51:05,919 --> 01:51:03,739
do you think if a producer for one of

2424
01:51:07,510 --> 01:51:05,929
those channels came to you National

2425
01:51:10,149 --> 01:51:07,520
Geographic history whatever and said

2426
01:51:14,140 --> 01:51:10,159
let's do a fake magazine thing what

2427
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:14,150
would you do and it's already might be

2428
01:51:18,189 --> 01:51:17,090
happening all right but I'm not allowed

2429
01:51:20,470 --> 01:51:18,199
to say anything else

2430
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:20,480
now one thing I mentioned before we got

2431
01:51:26,919 --> 01:51:24,560
on the air there is now a new reality

2432
01:51:31,689 --> 01:51:26,929
show called hangar 1 which I guess is

2433
01:51:33,250 --> 01:51:31,699
based on MUFON case histories but Jerry

2434
01:51:38,620 --> 01:51:33,260
you were telling me they just bought the

2435
01:51:38,890 --> 01:51:38,630
rights to use Motown's name never have

2436
01:51:40,839 --> 01:51:38,900
been

2437
01:51:43,780 --> 01:51:40,849
MUFON of course is the mutual UFO

2438
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:43,790
network and which is an organization has

2439
01:51:50,620 --> 01:51:46,730
been around since I think about 1969 or

2440
01:51:54,100 --> 01:51:50,630
so and MUFON has done a lot of good work

2441
01:51:57,790 --> 01:51:54,110
it's also got involved in a lot of

2442
01:51:59,649 --> 01:51:57,800
foolishness I think that MUFON is kind

2443
01:52:01,959 --> 01:51:59,659
of a hybrid of a UFO research

2444
01:52:06,370 --> 01:52:01,969
organization and a flying saucer club

2445
01:52:09,879 --> 01:52:06,380
how so well there are always people in

2446
01:52:12,700 --> 01:52:09,889
the organization I think unfortunately a

2447
01:52:15,669 --> 01:52:12,710
minority but not necessarily a tiny

2448
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:15,679
minority but a minority who have some

2449
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:18,650
kind of intellectual discipline and want

2450
01:52:22,650 --> 01:52:21,050
to analyze cases and investigate them

2451
01:52:24,900 --> 01:52:22,660
reasonably

2452
01:52:28,230 --> 01:52:24,910
and come to reasonable conclusions and

2453
01:52:30,510 --> 01:52:28,240
with a reasonable documentation and then

2454
01:52:32,730 --> 01:52:30,520
there are other people who don't really

2455
01:52:36,750 --> 01:52:32,740
have that kind of critical intelligence

2456
01:52:39,630 --> 01:52:36,760
and just sort of your stereotypical true

2457
01:52:42,780 --> 01:52:39,640
believers who are in it for the stories

2458
01:52:46,860 --> 01:52:42,790
of the mystery intrigue and so on and so

2459
01:52:48,990 --> 01:52:46,870
the magazine the MUFON Journal if you

2460
01:52:51,180 --> 01:52:49,000
read it caters really to both crowds

2461
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:51,190
that you can read about some pretty

2462
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:54,010
decent investigations and then you can

2463
01:52:59,100 --> 01:52:56,050
read a lot of stuff it's just crazy and

2464
01:53:02,730 --> 01:52:59,110
wildly speculative and even gullible and

2465
01:53:04,860 --> 01:53:02,740
I think that you know you these many

2466
01:53:08,070 --> 01:53:04,870
many shows and anomalies and paranormal

2467
01:53:11,130 --> 01:53:08,080
on cable television most of them are are

2468
01:53:13,730 --> 01:53:11,140
no good they're just crap and they're

2469
01:53:17,100 --> 01:53:13,740
kind of lowest common denominator shows

2470
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:17,110
and they're there they pretend to be

2471
01:53:22,050 --> 01:53:19,090
documentaries but they're really just

2472
01:53:23,850 --> 01:53:22,060
been entertainment and I have not seen

2473
01:53:28,410 --> 01:53:23,860
the particular show you mentioned but I

2474
01:53:30,780 --> 01:53:28,420
have been in conversation with certain

2475
01:53:32,580 --> 01:53:30,790
individuals connected with MUFON whom I

2476
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:32,590
will not name because they're getting

2477
01:53:39,210 --> 01:53:36,210
into trouble sure you say that this

2478
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:39,220
operation bought the rights to the MUFON

2479
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:43,090
name and and was basically the contract

2480
01:53:47,070 --> 01:53:44,890
said they could do anything they wanted

2481
01:53:49,740 --> 01:53:47,080
with it then they're doing anything they

2482
01:53:52,950 --> 01:53:49,750
want with it which apparently is a lot

2483
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:52,960
of really silly stuff that it doesn't

2484
01:53:58,260 --> 01:53:54,970
deserve the attention of any serious

2485
01:54:01,050 --> 01:53:58,270
minded person curious about you know

2486
01:54:03,480 --> 01:54:01,060
what the realities and unreality of UFO

2487
01:54:06,390 --> 01:54:03,490
phenomenon are what we're talking about

2488
01:54:10,500 --> 01:54:06,400
here is maybe emphasizing a few cases

2489
01:54:13,830 --> 01:54:10,510
that are crazy to begin with yeah

2490
01:54:15,570 --> 01:54:13,840
maybe even possibly but what they

2491
01:54:18,570 --> 01:54:15,580
apparently are doing which is just as

2492
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:18,580
bad is they'll show illustrations which

2493
01:54:22,860 --> 01:54:20,530
appear to be documents like government

2494
01:54:25,710 --> 01:54:22,870
documents on the air and they're

2495
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:25,720
fabricated documents and not always well

2496
01:54:30,480 --> 01:54:29,290
fabricated very clumsily fabricated with

2497
01:54:33,420 --> 01:54:30,490
just something to look good on the

2498
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:33,430
screen and that takes it even further

2499
01:54:35,700 --> 01:54:35,290
you know sometimes you can take an event

2500
01:54:38,220 --> 01:54:35,710
you can

2501
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:38,230
bayed whether it's real or not and if

2502
01:54:42,180 --> 01:54:39,850
you're faithful to the facts and the

2503
01:54:44,220 --> 01:54:42,190
presentation well then you can look at

2504
01:54:47,370 --> 01:54:44,230
it and say well I don't agree with that

2505
01:54:49,950 --> 01:54:47,380
but if you just make things up this is

2506
01:54:52,770 --> 01:54:49,960
working into the hands of skeptics as

2507
01:54:55,470 --> 01:54:52,780
you know well it's a late smeary

2508
01:54:57,540 --> 01:54:55,480
Margaret Fuller's dictum that we don't

2509
01:54:59,729 --> 01:54:57,550
have to believe it but has to capable of

2510
01:55:01,890 --> 01:54:59,739
beliefs if it's something that no

2511
01:55:07,950 --> 01:55:01,900
reasonable person could believe that's B

2512
01:55:11,310 --> 01:55:07,960
that's simply not even arguable and of

2513
01:55:12,930 --> 01:55:11,320
course people who aren't concerned about

2514
01:55:15,720 --> 01:55:12,940
such things just want to be entertained

2515
01:55:17,550 --> 01:55:15,730
for an hour they'll turn on the show the

2516
01:55:19,350 --> 01:55:17,560
watch it maybe they'll be interested I

2517
01:55:22,620 --> 01:55:19,360
have no idea about the ratings of hangar

2518
01:55:25,229 --> 01:55:22,630
1 I know other shows that have tried to

2519
01:55:27,979 --> 01:55:25,239
do this have not succeeded so well we

2520
01:55:31,140 --> 01:55:27,989
had for example chasing UFOs one of the

2521
01:55:34,020 --> 01:55:31,150
co-hosts was James Fox who regrets

2522
01:55:36,330 --> 01:55:34,030
having participated in that show and I

2523
01:55:39,060 --> 01:55:36,340
think he believed that maybe he could

2524
01:55:41,700 --> 01:55:39,070
bring something to the table it's not

2525
01:55:44,490 --> 01:55:41,710
quite as blatant as what hangar 1 is

2526
01:55:47,490 --> 01:55:44,500
doing but I guess you can't expect much

2527
01:55:50,220 --> 01:55:47,500
more from it so how in that framework

2528
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:50,230
and Phyllis you can add to this without

2529
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:53,610
giving us any details how do you provide

2530
01:55:59,400 --> 01:55:56,530
accurate information and a presentation

2531
01:56:01,470 --> 01:55:59,410
that has fidelity to the facts how do

2532
01:56:03,810 --> 01:56:01,480
you do it that's a very difficult

2533
01:56:06,060 --> 01:56:03,820
question because when you sign an

2534
01:56:09,720 --> 01:56:06,070
agreement for TV or movie you pretty

2535
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:09,730
much signed all rights away this happens

2536
01:56:14,310 --> 01:56:12,010
across the board with a lot of people

2537
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:14,320
have written books and yeah they can

2538
01:56:18,090 --> 01:56:16,690
pretty much do whatever they want I'll

2539
01:56:20,610 --> 01:56:18,100
give him one more example

2540
01:56:24,209 --> 01:56:20,620
Hollywood optioned one of the UFO books

2541
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:24,219
from major Donald Kehoe and I think he

2542
01:56:29,700 --> 01:56:25,810
believed they would do something that's

2543
01:56:31,979 --> 01:56:29,710
UFO oriented and I know Jerry knows what

2544
01:56:37,890 --> 01:56:31,989
movie I'm talking about and why isn't a

2545
01:56:40,500 --> 01:56:37,900
bad movie by the way was sure first

2546
01:56:42,270 --> 01:56:40,510
applying Slee entertaining the special

2547
01:56:43,979 --> 01:56:42,280
effects were done by Ray Harryhausen

2548
01:56:46,910 --> 01:56:43,989
which is of course the stop-motion

2549
01:56:49,570 --> 01:56:46,920
animation and it had some of the best

2550
01:56:52,780 --> 01:56:49,580
special effects of a flying saucer

2551
01:56:55,900 --> 01:56:52,790
type film I've ever seen that you know

2552
01:56:58,330 --> 01:56:55,910
good performances interesting story but

2553
01:57:02,320 --> 01:56:58,340
the only thing that related in any way

2554
01:57:04,660 --> 01:57:02,330
to UFOs is the introduction where the

2555
01:57:07,510 --> 01:57:04,670
narrator gives you a brief overview of

2556
01:57:10,870 --> 01:57:07,520
the UFO mystery and that was it

2557
01:57:12,010 --> 01:57:10,880
Chiho was embarrassed beyond belief as a

2558
01:57:14,470 --> 01:57:12,020
result by the way

2559
01:57:16,420 --> 01:57:14,480
girag had this name taken off the

2560
01:57:18,250 --> 01:57:16,430
credits but they wouldn't do it you see

2561
01:57:19,540 --> 01:57:18,260
the movie you'll see that it's quote

2562
01:57:24,400 --> 01:57:19,550
unquote based on

2563
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flying saucers from outer space buddy

2564
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we have drum clark and fill the scauldy

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banks stock brokers investment advisors

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2671
02:02:03,510 --> 02:02:01,120
cast Chris O'Brien's on special

2672
02:02:05,850 --> 02:02:03,520
assignment we have photo scauldy of fate

2673
02:02:07,350 --> 02:02:05,860
magazine and Jerome Clarke the UFO

2674
02:02:10,650 --> 02:02:07,360
historian who used to work for fate

2675
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:10,660
magazine and yes if you look up the

2676
02:02:16,950 --> 02:02:13,810
credits Hollywood bought an option on

2677
02:02:19,380 --> 02:02:16,960
Kiyo's book that option lets them do

2678
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:19,390
anything I think that keyhole should

2679
02:02:23,460 --> 02:02:21,010
have been more philosophical about it

2680
02:02:25,229 --> 02:02:23,470
because after all this was a science

2681
02:02:27,870 --> 02:02:25,239
fiction film it did pretend to be a

2682
02:02:30,090 --> 02:02:27,880
documentary it's sad to me like he was

2683
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:30,100
either very naive or didn't pay

2684
02:02:35,510 --> 02:02:32,890
attention but certainly if you're going

2685
02:02:39,290 --> 02:02:35,520
to option a property to Hollywood you

2686
02:02:42,510 --> 02:02:39,300
have to have a good lawyer there a

2687
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:42,520
really really good lawyer because you

2688
02:02:47,550 --> 02:02:45,610
know unless you have a high-power lawyer

2689
02:02:53,220 --> 02:02:47,560
or you have some previous history in

2690
02:02:56,010 --> 02:02:53,230
Hollywood prepare to be taken you got it

2691
02:02:57,300 --> 02:02:56,020
but that oh I can just send Kehoe of

2692
02:03:00,030 --> 02:02:57,310
course was trying to be so serious about

2693
02:03:02,970 --> 02:03:00,040
everything well Kehoe actually I'm in

2694
02:03:05,729 --> 02:03:02,980
Kiyo's defense one of the QIOs missions

2695
02:03:08,910 --> 02:03:05,739
and I didn't fully understand this until

2696
02:03:11,820 --> 02:03:08,920
I wrote my UFO encyclopedias series I

2697
02:03:14,550 --> 02:03:11,830
was really immersed in you know the

2698
02:03:17,130 --> 02:03:14,560
details of me I cannot be of the apology

2699
02:03:18,780 --> 02:03:17,140
in 1950s and reading private

2700
02:03:21,510 --> 02:03:18,790
correspondence and rereading the

2701
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:21,520
publications and what Kiva was trying to

2702
02:03:25,160 --> 02:03:22,530
do was to make

2703
02:03:28,100 --> 02:03:25,170
the Sun you beautiful is respectable and

2704
02:03:30,410 --> 02:03:28,110
in those days it was up for grabs and

2705
02:03:32,990 --> 02:03:30,420
what Kehoe did was perfectly honorable

2706
02:03:35,330 --> 02:03:33,000
and he saw that if this thing isn't

2707
02:03:37,850 --> 02:03:35,340
taken seriously we're not going to know

2708
02:03:41,169 --> 02:03:37,860
what's going on he was exactly right and

2709
02:03:43,580 --> 02:03:41,179
I think that he saw this movie as

2710
02:03:45,109 --> 02:03:43,590
apparently ending in some kind of

2711
02:03:48,290 --> 02:03:45,119
documentary which would have a

2712
02:03:50,779 --> 02:03:48,300
measurable effect on public opinion and

2713
02:03:53,270 --> 02:03:50,789
I think the book was optioned just

2714
02:03:55,819 --> 02:03:53,280
because they wanted to make you know as

2715
02:03:58,339 --> 02:03:55,829
a science fiction movie with flying

2716
02:04:00,319 --> 02:03:58,349
saucers and then in Hollywood then they

2717
02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:00,329
may have been afraid that if they had

2718
02:04:04,760 --> 02:04:03,090
done that without paying Kehoe who is

2719
02:04:08,419 --> 02:04:04,770
the most prominent you'll fall off at

2720
02:04:10,459 --> 02:04:08,429
the time some money he would sue them so

2721
02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:10,469
you can see things from both ends of

2722
02:04:16,669 --> 02:04:13,010
this so this transaction was defensive

2723
02:04:19,069 --> 02:04:16,679
yeah I think I think it may very well I

2724
02:04:21,859 --> 02:04:19,079
think they may not have wanted to get

2725
02:04:25,010 --> 02:04:21,869
sued and then and Kehoe may have seen it

2726
02:04:27,379 --> 02:04:25,020
he had some proprietary interest in all

2727
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:27,389
concept of flying saucers and he could

2728
02:04:31,459 --> 02:04:29,130
have made a legal case out of this I

2729
02:04:33,260 --> 02:04:31,469
think they probably paid him you know I

2730
02:04:35,510 --> 02:04:33,270
don't think they paid him a vast amount

2731
02:04:37,729 --> 02:04:35,520
of money but they paid him enough money

2732
02:04:40,490 --> 02:04:37,739
so that he wouldn't bother them in court

2733
02:04:42,830 --> 02:04:40,500
after the movie game and I think that

2734
02:04:45,709 --> 02:04:42,840
the two sides are probably speaking

2735
02:04:48,680 --> 02:04:45,719
different languages and mistreating each

2736
02:04:50,450 --> 02:04:48,690
other also I think with Kehoe I always

2737
02:04:52,850 --> 02:04:50,460
had this impression of someone very

2738
02:04:54,439 --> 02:04:52,860
naive about what would happen like for

2739
02:04:57,560 --> 02:04:54,449
example he said let's get congressional

2740
02:05:00,890 --> 02:04:57,570
hearings on UFOs this is gonna be it

2741
02:05:03,379 --> 02:05:00,900
these congressmen are honest brokers

2742
02:05:06,169 --> 02:05:03,389
they will find out the truth it seemed

2743
02:05:08,359 --> 02:05:06,179
to be over his head about the political

2744
02:05:11,419 --> 02:05:08,369
ramifications and of course when they

2745
02:05:14,750 --> 02:05:11,429
finally had hearings about UFOs in the

2746
02:05:17,750 --> 02:05:14,760
1960s we got the Condon report well I

2747
02:05:20,750 --> 02:05:17,760
think that he had actually spent most of

2748
02:05:23,330 --> 02:05:20,760
his professional life in Washington and

2749
02:05:25,640 --> 02:05:23,340
I think that he thought in terms of you

2750
02:05:28,669 --> 02:05:25,650
know Washington solutions to problems

2751
02:05:30,680 --> 02:05:28,679
and if you become convinced that the Air

2752
02:05:32,779 --> 02:05:30,690
Force is not telling the truth that is

2753
02:05:35,060 --> 02:05:32,789
covering up what it knows you know

2754
02:05:36,020 --> 02:05:35,070
congressional hearings aren't an

2755
02:05:38,450 --> 02:05:36,030
irrational

2756
02:05:42,020 --> 02:05:38,460
responsibly it just turned out to be a

2757
02:05:44,330 --> 02:05:42,030
misguided one and that the best work the

2758
02:05:47,900 --> 02:05:44,340
nightcap did which was documenting and

2759
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:47,910
investigating sightings never really got

2760
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:49,770
the attention it deserved and I didn't

2761
02:05:53,840 --> 02:05:52,050
even fully understand myself while I was

2762
02:05:57,800 --> 02:05:53,850
working on the encyclopedia and began

2763
02:06:00,350 --> 02:05:57,810
getting access to the reports that these

2764
02:06:02,660 --> 02:06:00,360
nightcaps investigative subcommittees

2765
02:06:05,990 --> 02:06:02,670
were filing and seeing what an

2766
02:06:07,820 --> 02:06:06,000
incredibly good job they were doing but

2767
02:06:09,590 --> 02:06:07,830
if you read the night cap publications

2768
02:06:12,050 --> 02:06:09,600
you read very little about that you read

2769
02:06:15,500 --> 02:06:12,060
mostly about the you know the perfect

2770
02:06:18,170 --> 02:06:15,510
eve of the Air Force and its cover-up

2771
02:06:20,780 --> 02:06:18,180
and all that just seems to have kind of

2772
02:06:23,720 --> 02:06:20,790
evaporated in the mist over time and the

2773
02:06:25,940 --> 02:06:23,730
history has not validated either that

2774
02:06:28,220 --> 02:06:25,950
interpretation or the approach that

2775
02:06:30,350 --> 02:06:28,230
followed from a namely congressional

2776
02:06:33,560 --> 02:06:30,360
hearings keyhole was just simply

2777
02:06:36,380 --> 02:06:33,570
misguided and yet he was in a sense of

2778
02:06:39,050 --> 02:06:36,390
heroic figure and understanding that UFO

2779
02:06:41,660 --> 02:06:39,060
reports were genuinely puzzling and

2780
02:06:43,070 --> 02:06:41,670
possibly deeply significant and

2781
02:06:46,040 --> 02:06:43,080
deserving the more than they were

2782
02:06:48,290 --> 02:06:46,050
getting from official and military

2783
02:06:50,810 --> 02:06:48,300
agencies and you know by the way major

2784
02:06:55,250 --> 02:06:50,820
Keyhoe if you look at his bio he also

2785
02:06:57,740 --> 02:06:55,260
wrote fiction by the way right and he

2786
02:06:59,360 --> 02:06:57,750
created superheroes as a matter of fact

2787
02:07:02,030 --> 02:06:59,370
he created one called

2788
02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:02,040
richard knight who was supposed to be a

2789
02:07:07,460 --> 02:07:04,410
world war one veteran listen to this now

2790
02:07:10,310 --> 02:07:07,470
he's blinded in combat but gains a

2791
02:07:13,220 --> 02:07:10,320
supernatural ability to see in the dark

2792
02:07:16,220 --> 02:07:13,230
I wonder if daredevil the Marvel

2793
02:07:19,040 --> 02:07:16,230
character was influenced by that Richard

2794
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:19,050
Knight created by major Donald Kehoe

2795
02:07:24,260 --> 02:07:21,810
think about that there was a comic book

2796
02:07:29,180 --> 02:07:24,270
character named ray Palmer's you may

2797
02:07:32,060 --> 02:07:29,190
know right and he was called ant-man he

2798
02:07:33,950 --> 02:07:32,070
could make himself very small and of

2799
02:07:36,350 --> 02:07:33,960
course the real Ray Palmer was very

2800
02:07:40,610 --> 02:07:36,360
small so yeah there was something in

2801
02:07:43,610 --> 02:07:40,620
that yeah that was an intentional homage

2802
02:07:45,850 --> 02:07:43,620
to the real Ray Palmer so I understand

2803
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:45,860
that according to the threat natives

2804
02:07:50,580 --> 02:07:48,010
Palmer's blog refer

2805
02:07:53,130 --> 02:07:50,590
yes but think about it I'm just thinking

2806
02:07:57,240 --> 02:07:53,140
about major Keyhoe as someone who

2807
02:08:00,570 --> 02:07:57,250
created superheroes hmm his writing in

2808
02:08:02,280 --> 02:08:00,580
his UFO books is clearly influenced by

2809
02:08:03,630 --> 02:08:02,290
his pulp writing I mean those books are

2810
02:08:06,930 --> 02:08:03,640
written like you know I mean they're

2811
02:08:09,060 --> 02:08:06,940
they're factual Oh in that respect

2812
02:08:10,229 --> 02:08:09,070
pretty speculative but they're written

2813
02:08:12,479 --> 02:08:10,239
like pulp fiction

2814
02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:12,489
you know the writing style and keels

2815
02:08:17,280 --> 02:08:15,730
books is really corny and dated and I

2816
02:08:20,190 --> 02:08:17,290
always thought of them as being pulp

2817
02:08:23,100 --> 02:08:20,200
mystery novels yeah heavy on dialogue

2818
02:08:26,040 --> 02:08:23,110
light on description yep and he'd

2819
02:08:29,670 --> 02:08:26,050
recreate conversations with people to

2820
02:08:31,410 --> 02:08:29,680
present a case well he didn't take I was

2821
02:08:33,950 --> 02:08:31,420
told I was talking with someone who knew

2822
02:08:37,170 --> 02:08:33,960
people about exactly that these

2823
02:08:40,410 --> 02:08:37,180
improbable recreated conversations and

2824
02:08:42,810 --> 02:08:40,420
the individual said that he was just a

2825
02:08:45,570 --> 02:08:42,820
fanatical note-taker and he did write

2826
02:08:47,940 --> 02:08:45,580
down these conversations as they were

2827
02:08:50,430 --> 02:08:47,950
happening or very soon after they

2828
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:50,440
happened so he thought the conversations

2829
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:53,290
were you know we're fairly accurate

2830
02:08:58,680 --> 02:08:55,690
he wasn't tape recording my apparently

2831
02:08:59,550 --> 02:08:58,690
but he was you know a great journalistic

2832
02:09:01,950 --> 02:08:59,560
note-taker

2833
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:01,960
so the conversations apparently aren't

2834
02:09:06,630 --> 02:09:05,050
quite as fictitious as they read but

2835
02:09:09,870 --> 02:09:06,640
there's a lot in those books where the

2836
02:09:12,479 --> 02:09:09,880
prose is so clumsy and heavy-handed that

2837
02:09:14,460 --> 02:09:12,489
you just sort of cringe and nobody would

2838
02:09:16,530 --> 02:09:14,470
write you a full book like that today

2839
02:09:19,590 --> 02:09:16,540
you know I got the impression that

2840
02:09:23,060 --> 02:09:19,600
Captain rappel tried to imitate Kehoe

2841
02:09:25,650 --> 02:09:23,070
and writing his book I think a lot of

2842
02:09:28,940 --> 02:09:25,660
bluebells book was ghost written you

2843
02:09:34,490 --> 02:09:28,950
know he had a big editorial hand of a

2844
02:09:37,440 --> 02:09:34,500
reporter from kind of the guys name and

2845
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:37,450
probably that reporter no doubt was

2846
02:09:41,850 --> 02:09:39,370
influenced by Kehoe saying well this is

2847
02:09:44,729 --> 02:09:41,860
the best-selling UFO book let's make it

2848
02:09:47,070 --> 02:09:44,739
read like that well I think that the

2849
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:47,080
report is a lot better written than

2850
02:09:51,660 --> 02:09:49,450
keels books you know I've gone back to

2851
02:09:53,970 --> 02:09:51,670
repel in a number of locations one in my

2852
02:09:55,979 --> 02:09:53,980
own writing and I think that's one of

2853
02:09:57,420 --> 02:09:55,989
the best written of the early UFO book

2854
02:10:00,580 --> 02:09:57,430
the report

2855
02:10:02,229 --> 02:10:00,590
unidentified flying objects captain it

2856
02:10:04,540 --> 02:10:02,239
route pelts so if you want to look that

2857
02:10:06,250 --> 02:10:04,550
up a lot of fascinating cases there of

2858
02:10:08,080 --> 02:10:06,260
course we mentioned it earlier when we

2859
02:10:09,879 --> 02:10:08,090
were talking about the Maury island case

2860
02:10:11,919 --> 02:10:09,889
and the Chicago publisher and the

2861
02:10:14,050 --> 02:10:11,929
chicago publisher of course being Ray

2862
02:10:15,490 --> 02:10:14,060
Palmer we'll have more to come and some

2863
02:10:16,270 --> 02:10:15,500
more questions of Jerry Clark in our

2864
02:10:35,859 --> 02:10:16,280
next segment

2865
02:10:38,290 --> 02:10:35,869
Jerome Clark Phyllis called a graphic

2866
02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:38,300
converter is the image manipulation tool

2867
02:10:43,149 --> 02:10:40,730
for the rest of us it does not use any

2868
02:10:45,640 --> 02:10:43,159
database you get full control of all

2869
02:10:47,979 --> 02:10:45,650
your files want to view the images of a

2870
02:10:50,979 --> 02:10:47,989
folder drag it into graphic converter

2871
02:10:52,870 --> 02:10:50,989
and a powerful browser opens up to show

2872
02:10:55,359 --> 02:10:52,880
your image files you could use it for

2873
02:10:57,550 --> 02:10:55,369
slideshows you could use it to import

2874
02:10:59,950 --> 02:10:57,560
images from digital cameras or from

2875
02:11:01,570 --> 02:10:59,960
scanners need to do some image editing

2876
02:11:04,240 --> 02:11:01,580
you can do that too and graphic

2877
02:11:05,800 --> 02:11:04,250
converter also print catalogs convert

2878
02:11:08,020 --> 02:11:05,810
from so many formats

2879
02:11:10,450 --> 02:11:08,030
I can't even list them download now to

2880
02:11:13,540 --> 02:11:10,460
see if graphic converter is good for you

2881
02:11:15,790 --> 02:11:13,550
like one and a half million other users

2882
02:11:18,189 --> 02:11:15,800
guess what you could save money when you

2883
02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:18,199
buy graphic converter use the coupon

2884
02:11:23,470 --> 02:11:21,050
code night owl use the coupon code night

2885
02:11:26,760 --> 02:11:23,480
how to get a special price for graphic

2886
02:11:33,180 --> 02:11:26,770
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2887
02:11:37,990 --> 02:11:33,190
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2888
02:11:40,359 --> 02:11:38,000
soft calm don't complain about your

2889
02:11:42,430 --> 02:11:40,369
cable bill going up and up and I'll do

2890
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:42,440
something about it grab a pencil and jot

2891
02:11:48,220 --> 02:11:46,010
down this special number 25 v 905 my TV

2892
02:11:50,830 --> 02:11:48,230
the more cable TV rates go up the better

2893
02:11:52,629 --> 02:11:50,840
digital satellite TV looks say goodbye

2894
02:11:54,430 --> 02:11:52,639
to the Cable Guy and get more of your

2895
02:11:58,570 --> 02:11:54,440
favorite channels in 100% digital

2896
02:12:00,280 --> 02:11:58,580
quality or less money call 185 905 my TV

2897
02:12:02,500 --> 02:12:00,290
sign up for packages starting as low as

2898
02:12:05,410 --> 02:12:02,510
$19.99 and there's no equipment to buy

2899
02:12:07,240 --> 02:12:05,420
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2900
02:12:09,490 --> 02:12:07,250
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2901
02:12:11,560 --> 02:12:09,500
raishin you control what you watch when

2902
02:12:14,470 --> 02:12:11,570
you watch it record your favorite shows

2903
02:12:16,960 --> 02:12:14,480
pause and rewind live TV even skip the

2904
02:12:19,300 --> 02:12:16,970
commercials watch local channels to at

2905
02:12:21,070 --> 02:12:19,310
just $19.99 what are you waiting for

2906
02:12:26,950 --> 02:12:21,080
pull out your major credit or debit card

2907
02:12:29,530 --> 02:12:26,960
call 185 905 my TV 180 55 905 my TV say

2908
02:12:34,510 --> 02:12:29,540
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

2909
02:12:43,390 --> 02:12:34,520
get more one 855 905 my TV one 855 905

2910
02:12:46,450 --> 02:12:43,400
my TV in the u.s. one in every 50 homes

2911
02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:46,460
will have a break-in this year burglars

2912
02:12:53,050 --> 02:12:48,890
call it smash-and-grab police call it

2913
02:12:55,930 --> 02:12:53,060
robbery we call it avoidable we are fake

2914
02:12:58,780 --> 02:12:55,940
TV a simple electronic device that can

2915
02:13:00,970 --> 02:12:58,790
fool even professional burglars fake TV

2916
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:00,980
easily plugs into any outlet and

2917
02:13:05,200 --> 02:13:02,690
simulates the changing colors of a

2918
02:13:07,570 --> 02:13:05,210
television to a burglar it looks like

2919
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:07,580
someone must be home watching TV so

2920
02:13:13,870 --> 02:13:09,290
they'll likely move on to an easier

2921
02:13:15,610 --> 02:13:13,880
target at only 29.95 fake TV costs less

2922
02:13:18,130 --> 02:13:15,620
than a month of most alarm monitoring

2923
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:18,140
plans and comes with free shipping order

2924
02:13:24,820 --> 02:13:22,250
your fake TV by calling 877 five fake TV

2925
02:13:26,740 --> 02:13:24,830
or go to fake tv.com

2926
02:13:30,280 --> 02:13:26,750
that's eight seven seven five three two

2927
02:13:36,640 --> 02:13:30,290
five three eight eight or fake tv.com

2928
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:36,650
fake TV the burglar deterrent there are

2929
02:13:41,110 --> 02:13:38,690
many things the human body can do very

2930
02:13:42,220 --> 02:13:41,120
well but maintaining the proper pH level

2931
02:13:44,440 --> 02:13:42,230
isn't always one of them

2932
02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:44,450
that's where Alko vision plasma pH drops

2933
02:13:48,490 --> 02:13:46,370
can make a world of difference alka

2934
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:48,500
vision plasma pH drops helps your body

2935
02:13:52,990 --> 02:13:50,810
do what's natural just a few drops a day

2936
02:13:54,670 --> 02:13:53,000
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2937
02:13:57,190 --> 02:13:54,680
acid while promoting health and

2938
02:13:58,930 --> 02:13:57,200
restoring vibrance and energy alkalizing

2939
02:14:01,030 --> 02:13:58,940
boosts your immune system and can help

2940
02:14:03,310 --> 02:14:01,040
fight headaches irritability cramping

2941
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:03,320
and insomnia alkalizing also helps the

2942
02:14:07,300 --> 02:14:05,570
body fight depression and even bone loss

2943
02:14:08,980 --> 02:14:07,310
to learn more about the importance of

2944
02:14:11,140 --> 02:14:08,990
alkalizing and how you can find

2945
02:14:13,390 --> 02:14:11,150
life-changing and vital balance please

2946
02:14:15,940 --> 02:14:13,400
visit alka visions brand-new website at

2947
02:14:16,360 --> 02:14:15,950
alka vision comm same great products but

2948
02:14:18,310 --> 02:14:16,370
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2949
02:14:20,590 --> 02:14:18,320
easier to use and more informative than

2950
02:14:37,890 --> 02:14:20,600
ever before to get your very own plasma

2951
02:14:37,900 --> 02:14:56,590
[Music]

2952
02:15:01,879 --> 02:14:59,990
okay Chris O'Brien is on special

2953
02:15:03,939 --> 02:15:01,889
assignment this week he'll be back next

2954
02:15:08,240 --> 02:15:03,949
week we'll be talking about his new book

2955
02:15:10,689 --> 02:15:08,250
stalking the herd Phyllis called e Jerry

2956
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:10,699
Clark you guys at fate have much

2957
02:15:15,919 --> 02:15:13,370
information about cattle mutilations

2958
02:15:18,890 --> 02:15:15,929
well we haven't really done much

2959
02:15:24,879 --> 02:15:18,900
recently on cattle mutilations I guess

2960
02:15:27,919 --> 02:15:24,889
people realize they exist and I'm

2961
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:27,929
skeptical probably unless I see one

2962
02:15:34,700 --> 02:15:31,770
myself yeah I think the problem is even

2963
02:15:39,610 --> 02:15:34,710
if Phyllis or I saw one ourselves

2964
02:15:43,100 --> 02:15:39,620
we simply don't lack see the forensic

2965
02:15:45,500 --> 02:15:43,110
really so would you probably a story

2966
02:15:48,200 --> 02:15:45,510
like that though we have we have

2967
02:15:49,910 --> 02:15:48,210
published things on cattle mutilation we

2968
02:15:52,310 --> 02:15:49,920
have some questions from Jerome Clark

2969
02:15:55,399 --> 02:15:52,320
here from burnt State he's back again

2970
02:15:57,110 --> 02:15:55,409
and he has three more questions so I

2971
02:16:00,379 --> 02:15:57,120
think some of this has been answered

2972
02:16:03,379 --> 02:16:00,389
already but let's go into the tale Jerry

2973
02:16:06,229 --> 02:16:03,389
his first question over the years what

2974
02:16:08,540 --> 02:16:06,239
role and impact did fate magazine have

2975
02:16:10,939 --> 02:16:08,550
in shaping your own approach and

2976
02:16:12,939 --> 02:16:10,949
philosophy towards the UFO and

2977
02:16:16,850 --> 02:16:12,949
paranormal fields

2978
02:16:18,709 --> 02:16:16,860
well I suppose broadly speaking I could

2979
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:18,719
say that it gave me a respect for

2980
02:16:25,010 --> 02:16:22,170
people's experiences and people's kind

2981
02:16:27,140 --> 02:16:25,020
of frustration and communicating you

2982
02:16:29,899 --> 02:16:27,150
know fantastic experiences to other

2983
02:16:32,360 --> 02:16:29,909
people because they're you know social

2984
02:16:34,370 --> 02:16:32,370
pressure demands and we not believe in

2985
02:16:37,190 --> 02:16:34,380
these things or take them seriously and

2986
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:37,200
it puts people who claim otherwise into

2987
02:16:42,860 --> 02:16:40,050
various kinds of stereotypes none of

2988
02:16:44,929 --> 02:16:42,870
them flattering so I realized that one

2989
02:16:46,959 --> 02:16:44,939
reason people read fate was it had a

2990
02:16:49,969 --> 02:16:46,969
strange experience and reading it

2991
02:16:52,490 --> 02:16:49,979
columns like true mystic experiences or

2992
02:16:53,860 --> 02:16:52,500
my coulomb survival help them realize

2993
02:16:57,200 --> 02:16:53,870
those people having these experiences

2994
02:16:59,030 --> 02:16:57,210
and that therefore they weren't crazy

2995
02:17:00,980 --> 02:16:59,040
because I may even question their own

2996
02:17:03,469 --> 02:17:00,990
sanity after they were laughed at enough

2997
02:17:05,929 --> 02:17:03,479
by their friends and neighbors but

2998
02:17:08,759 --> 02:17:05,939
beyond that fate certainly influenced me

2999
02:17:12,299 --> 02:17:08,769
but you know I my interest in those

3000
02:17:16,439 --> 02:17:12,309
subjects predated by even reading fate

3001
02:17:18,689 --> 02:17:16,449
and I have had input from all kinds of

3002
02:17:23,129 --> 02:17:18,699
sources of information and from people

3003
02:17:27,589 --> 02:17:23,139
that I respect and just a wide range of

3004
02:17:30,889 --> 02:17:27,599
kind of a growingly kind of cool

3005
02:17:35,429 --> 02:17:30,899
intellectual approach to these matters

3006
02:17:37,859 --> 02:17:35,439
and so yes fate was part of that mix but

3007
02:17:40,679 --> 02:17:37,869
it's a huge mix and there were many

3008
02:17:44,250 --> 02:17:40,689
influences that have gone into my

3009
02:17:46,410 --> 02:17:44,260
thinking over the decades but I continue

3010
02:17:49,500 --> 02:17:46,420
to love fate magazine and to be honored

3011
02:17:52,169 --> 02:17:49,510
that I get to have a column in it who

3012
02:17:54,089 --> 02:17:52,179
are the writers and favorite topics from

3013
02:17:56,099 --> 02:17:54,099
faith that you've enjoyed reading the

3014
02:18:00,599 --> 02:17:56,109
most in the history of the publication

3015
02:18:05,429 --> 02:18:00,609
Jerry well you know I like the stuff I

3016
02:18:08,250 --> 02:18:05,439
like the cryptozoology articles and just

3017
02:18:11,669 --> 02:18:08,260
anything that that you know struck me is

3018
02:18:14,399 --> 02:18:11,679
novel and just different from from the

3019
02:18:16,799 --> 02:18:14,409
rest you know I you know and there were

3020
02:18:18,330 --> 02:18:16,809
writers I had when I working there had

3021
02:18:21,419 --> 02:18:18,340
my favorite writers who were guys who

3022
02:18:23,969 --> 02:18:21,429
were more like me you know really were

3023
02:18:26,700 --> 02:18:23,979
you know digging into stuff and trying

3024
02:18:28,889 --> 02:18:26,710
to find a way to analyze and stuff and

3025
02:18:32,750 --> 02:18:28,899
to think about it seriously and not just

3026
02:18:35,969 --> 02:18:32,760
kind of you know accept it as fodder for

3027
02:18:38,609 --> 02:18:35,979
imaginations and speculation and you

3028
02:18:41,549 --> 02:18:38,619
know always more oriented toward people

3029
02:18:43,410 --> 02:18:41,559
who are kind of have a scholarly

3030
02:18:45,809 --> 02:18:43,420
inclination when they dealing with this

3031
02:18:48,330 --> 02:18:45,819
sort of thing you know that's a question

3032
02:18:52,759 --> 02:18:48,340
I like Phyllis to answer to Phyllis well

3033
02:18:55,169 --> 02:18:52,769
I really enjoy the every issue we

3034
02:18:58,709 --> 02:18:55,179
published stories from fifty years ago

3035
02:19:01,559 --> 02:18:58,719
and being an English teacher and

3036
02:19:04,229 --> 02:19:01,569
creative writing I just love how they

3037
02:19:07,919 --> 02:19:04,239
wrote back then I don't think people

3038
02:19:09,509 --> 02:19:07,929
have the skill or the time to weave the

3039
02:19:13,379 --> 02:19:09,519
wonderful stories

3040
02:19:15,059 --> 02:19:13,389
that they did 50 years ago yeah so over

3041
02:19:19,350 --> 02:19:15,069
and over again I I find myself just

3042
02:19:21,870 --> 02:19:19,360
charmed by by the writing style and and

3043
02:19:25,230 --> 02:19:21,880
the magic of the stories and the wonder

3044
02:19:28,770 --> 02:19:25,240
of them from 50 years ago my auntie

3045
02:19:32,790 --> 02:19:28,780
Sanderson comes up a lot and and he was

3046
02:19:35,850 --> 02:19:32,800
a popular writer back then and I loved

3047
02:19:38,400 --> 02:19:35,860
reading his stuff Sanderson was a

3048
02:19:40,290 --> 02:19:38,410
wonderfully chatty writer you'd read him

3049
02:19:42,089 --> 02:19:40,300
and would feel like you were sitting

3050
02:19:44,970 --> 02:19:42,099
over a drink and he was telling you a

3051
02:19:46,860 --> 02:19:44,980
story and he kind of go off into pieces

3052
02:19:50,280 --> 02:19:46,870
sighs and stuff and then he kept these

3053
02:19:52,860 --> 02:19:50,290
plenty observations and sometimes he

3054
02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:52,870
read Sanderson closely he wasn't making

3055
02:19:59,130 --> 02:19:55,450
a whole lot of sense but he was really

3056
02:20:02,310 --> 02:19:59,140
fun to read I knew him casually for a

3057
02:20:03,120 --> 02:20:02,320
few years before his death and he was a

3058
02:20:05,460 --> 02:20:03,130
fun guy

3059
02:20:08,280 --> 02:20:05,470
we went out to his farm or whatever it

3060
02:20:10,290 --> 02:20:08,290
was and we spent the afternoon with him

3061
02:20:13,620 --> 02:20:10,300
really fascinating guy really

3062
02:20:16,860 --> 02:20:13,630
interesting guy everybody that I know

3063
02:20:20,520 --> 02:20:16,870
who do Sanderson said that he was kind

3064
02:20:23,820 --> 02:20:20,530
of half crazy but he was always fun and

3065
02:20:26,880 --> 02:20:23,830
people always enjoy being around him of

3066
02:20:29,370 --> 02:20:26,890
course as a corollary to that maybe some

3067
02:20:31,350 --> 02:20:29,380
of the things he speculated about you

3068
02:20:34,380 --> 02:20:31,360
wouldn't take fully seriously you know

3069
02:20:37,290 --> 02:20:34,390
Bill Davis said in a private letter to

3070
02:20:40,470 --> 02:20:37,300
be atmospheric juices and UFO

3071
02:20:42,390 --> 02:20:40,480
investigator change MacDonald Isabel

3072
02:20:44,730 --> 02:20:42,400
Davis was major figure in the early

3073
02:20:47,690 --> 02:20:44,740
history of ethology is a really serious

3074
02:20:50,220 --> 02:20:47,700
student and thinking about it and

3075
02:20:52,590 --> 02:20:50,230
MacDonald was a scientist at the

3076
02:20:54,540 --> 02:20:52,600
University Rosanna was doing a lot of

3077
02:20:59,430 --> 02:20:54,550
beautiful investigations he was trying

3078
02:21:01,650 --> 02:20:59,440
to find other scientists and of course

3079
02:21:03,720 --> 02:21:01,660
Sanderson was quite prominent as an

3080
02:21:07,350 --> 02:21:03,730
author and television personality

3081
02:21:08,761 --> 02:21:07,360
so MacDonald struck up a conversation on

3082
02:21:11,970 --> 02:21:08,771
MacDonald was a very serious

3083
02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:11,980
straight-laced guy who never ever forgot

3084
02:21:17,100 --> 02:21:13,450
that he was a scientist was

3085
02:21:19,410 --> 02:21:17,110
investigating UFOs and he just came up

3086
02:21:22,320 --> 02:21:19,420
against Sanderson and Sanderson just

3087
02:21:25,051 --> 02:21:22,330
struck and it's a complete goofball and

3088
02:21:27,541 --> 02:21:25,061
he just couldn't understand why he

3089
02:21:30,421 --> 02:21:27,551
couldn't communicate with Sanderson

3090
02:21:32,911 --> 02:21:30,431
mr. scientist as he expected to so he

3091
02:21:35,011 --> 02:21:32,921
expressed his frustrations to Isabelle

3092
02:21:36,780 --> 02:21:35,021
Davis in a letter which which was never

3093
02:21:41,190 --> 02:21:36,790
published at which I saw while I was

3094
02:21:43,310 --> 02:21:41,200
researching my copy and I and Isabelle

3095
02:21:46,890 --> 02:21:43,320
Davis writes back to McDonald she said

3096
02:21:50,190 --> 02:21:46,900
well you have to understand that

3097
02:21:55,711 --> 02:21:50,200
Ivan whom I have known for many years is

3098
02:21:57,480 --> 02:21:55,721
a child oh and and she said that she

3099
02:22:01,230 --> 02:21:57,490
loved him but he had the heart of a

3100
02:22:04,070 --> 02:22:01,240
child and and that's a great part of his

3101
02:22:07,320 --> 02:22:04,080
charm was that he was just full of

3102
02:22:11,190 --> 02:22:07,330
mystery and and and Marvel and Wonder

3103
02:22:15,541 --> 02:22:11,200
but you know he really was a keen

3104
02:22:18,060 --> 02:22:15,551
analytical adult mind as I said lots of

3105
02:22:19,680 --> 02:22:18,070
fascinating stories but you have to

3106
02:22:21,470 --> 02:22:19,690
consider whether to take them seriously

3107
02:22:24,121 --> 02:22:21,480
or not hmm

3108
02:22:26,610 --> 02:22:24,131
number three question number three from

3109
02:22:29,310 --> 02:22:26,620
burnt State and I'll go to both of you

3110
02:22:31,890 --> 02:22:29,320
for this first Jerry what approaches and

3111
02:22:34,230 --> 02:22:31,900
changes to the paranormal and youthful

3112
02:22:36,961 --> 02:22:34,240
ah djegal fields do you think would help

3113
02:22:39,780 --> 02:22:36,971
legitimize and broaden the audience for

3114
02:22:42,390 --> 02:22:39,790
more serious inquiry in these respective

3115
02:22:44,400 --> 02:22:42,400
fields of study and this of course kind

3116
02:22:46,650 --> 02:22:44,410
of follows through with talking about

3117
02:22:48,631 --> 02:22:46,660
reality TV and how people look at these

3118
02:22:50,461 --> 02:22:48,641
subjects now you might have a long

3119
02:22:52,261 --> 02:22:50,471
answer Jerry's let's start it in this

3120
02:22:56,730 --> 02:22:52,271
segment then continue in our final

3121
02:22:59,850 --> 02:22:56,740
segment well that nothing will change

3122
02:23:02,430 --> 02:22:59,860
until scientists get involved in the

3123
02:23:05,041 --> 02:23:02,440
serious way and do actual science and

3124
02:23:08,280 --> 02:23:05,051
have the resources laboratories the

3125
02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:08,290
funding the institution will support all

3126
02:23:13,801 --> 02:23:11,410
those things make science possible in

3127
02:23:16,680 --> 02:23:13,811
the meantime what I try to do and

3128
02:23:20,310 --> 02:23:16,690
colleagues my youthful our colleagues

3129
02:23:22,820 --> 02:23:20,320
that I respect and like to be around it

3130
02:23:25,980 --> 02:23:22,830
is tried to do the best kind of

3131
02:23:28,831 --> 02:23:25,990
scholarship and writing and preservation

3132
02:23:30,871 --> 02:23:28,841
of records and analysis that we can do

3133
02:23:33,661 --> 02:23:30,881
what we're doing we're involved in a

3134
02:23:36,001 --> 02:23:33,671
holding engine until finally science

3135
02:23:38,701 --> 02:23:36,011
takes us up in science will take this up

3136
02:23:40,980 --> 02:23:38,711
one day science always gets around to

3137
02:23:43,500 --> 02:23:40,990
dealing with the great questions

3138
02:23:44,881 --> 02:23:43,510
sometimes often it takes his time

3139
02:23:47,700 --> 02:23:44,891
getting there but it gets there

3140
02:23:50,850 --> 02:23:47,710
eventually but maybe it's not going to

3141
02:23:52,801 --> 02:23:50,860
happen in our lifetimes Jerry probably

3142
02:23:57,150 --> 02:23:52,811
is certainly not going to happen in your

3143
02:23:58,620 --> 02:23:57,160
lifetime 90 where as old as the hills

3144
02:24:00,990 --> 02:23:58,630
ladies and gentlemen when they said the

3145
02:24:05,400 --> 02:24:01,000
hills are alive with the sound of music

3146
02:24:08,280 --> 02:24:05,410
boy that was after we came about anyway

3147
02:24:11,881 --> 02:24:08,290
it is a question the science will take

3148
02:24:14,100 --> 02:24:11,891
up sometime in Jerry Clark and Phyllis

3149
02:24:18,610 --> 02:24:14,110
called e joining us you're in the para

3150
02:24:27,820 --> 02:24:25,590
[Music]

3151
02:24:30,670 --> 02:24:27,830
independently leading the way for the

3152
02:24:32,320 --> 02:24:30,680
nation compelling talk for every

3153
02:24:37,060 --> 02:24:32,330
political persuasion

3154
02:24:38,830 --> 02:24:37,070
we are G C n attack of the rock ODEs has

3155
02:24:40,600 --> 02:24:38,840
been well received by critics and

3156
02:24:43,719 --> 02:24:40,610
readers alike it's a thrill a minute

3157
02:24:46,090 --> 02:24:43,729
story you'll never forget a former US

3158
02:24:48,190 --> 02:24:46,100
military intelligence officer is haunted

3159
02:24:50,500 --> 02:24:48,200
by intense dreams about a beautiful

3160
02:24:53,620 --> 02:24:50,510
woman pleading for his help after a

3161
02:24:55,719 --> 02:24:53,630
terrible battle in outer space but the

3162
02:24:57,610 --> 02:24:55,729
dreams turn out to be true and thrust

3163
02:25:00,700 --> 02:24:57,620
him into a telepathic love affair with a

3164
02:25:03,040 --> 02:25:00,710
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

3165
02:25:05,860 --> 02:25:03,050
destroying the earth and now the

3166
02:25:08,320 --> 02:25:05,870
gripping tale continues in the coming of

3167
02:25:10,960 --> 02:25:08,330
the protectors it's the second book of

3168
02:25:13,120 --> 02:25:10,970
the raccoons trilogy a galaxy spanning

3169
02:25:16,180 --> 02:25:13,130
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

3170
02:25:18,010 --> 02:25:16,190
against powerful fanatical enemies that

3171
02:25:19,510 --> 02:25:18,020
threaten the lives of freedom loving

3172
02:25:22,600 --> 02:25:19,520
beings everywhere

3173
02:25:25,450 --> 02:25:22,610
attack of the rockets and the coming of

3174
02:25:28,450 --> 02:25:25,460
the protectors classic science fiction

3175
02:25:30,910 --> 02:25:28,460
at its best available now for more

3176
02:25:35,500 --> 02:25:30,920
details visit raah codes calm

3177
02:25:37,000 --> 02:25:35,510
that's our Ock o IDs calm good people

3178
02:25:40,570 --> 02:25:37,010
need help the homeowners association

3179
02:25:42,310 --> 02:25:40,580
said we had weeds and fine is $25 we

3180
02:25:43,690 --> 02:25:42,320
told them they had the wrong house they

3181
02:25:45,969 --> 02:25:43,700
said if we didn't pay it they'd file a

3182
02:25:48,010 --> 02:25:45,979
lien our attorney demanded photographs

3183
02:25:49,750 --> 02:25:48,020
witnesses and told him if they couldn't

3184
02:25:52,360 --> 02:25:49,760
provide this they must cease and desist

3185
02:25:54,969 --> 02:25:52,370
issues solved worry less and live more

3186
02:25:57,219 --> 02:25:54,979
with LS protection calm that's LS

3187
02:25:59,410 --> 02:25:57,229
protection calm or call eight five five

3188
02:26:01,210 --> 02:25:59,420
three four zero save that's eight five

3189
02:26:03,430 --> 02:26:01,220
five three four zero seven two eight

3190
02:26:05,920 --> 02:26:03,440
three results will vary from case to

3191
02:26:08,260 --> 02:26:05,930
case I'm David could any president and

3192
02:26:09,730 --> 02:26:08,270
CEO of Cigna we're proud to support the

3193
02:26:11,980 --> 02:26:09,740
March of Dimes by walking in the March

3194
02:26:14,080 --> 02:26:11,990
for Babies it feels great to know that

3195
02:26:15,790 --> 02:26:14,090
the money we raise funds life-saving

3196
02:26:18,250 --> 02:26:15,800
research and programs that improve the

3197
02:26:19,719 --> 02:26:18,260
health of babies with your help we can

3198
02:26:22,030 --> 02:26:19,729
make this year better than ever

3199
02:26:24,250 --> 02:26:22,040
join Cigna and our co-workers across the

3200
02:26:25,400 --> 02:26:24,260
country in March for Babies to help more

3201
02:26:28,040 --> 02:26:25,410
moms have full

3202
02:26:29,990 --> 02:26:28,050
pregnancies and healthier babies start

3203
02:26:32,480 --> 02:26:30,000
your team today at March for babies at

3204
02:26:36,850 --> 02:26:32,490
org and March to help our babies thank

3205
02:26:42,230 --> 02:26:40,011
great news pure water lovers big berkey

3206
02:26:44,660 --> 02:26:42,240
water filters calm has a special

3207
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3208
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3209
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3210
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3211
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for 5 to 10 years there's none better

3212
02:26:57,890 --> 02:26:55,680
than a big berkey for emergency

3213
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preparedness as a backup water source

3214
02:27:02,631 --> 02:27:00,330
and you just can't beat a big berkey to

3215
02:27:05,420 --> 02:27:02,641
remove dangerous chlorine all types of

3216
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3217
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3218
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3219
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systems are even powerful enough to

3220
02:27:17,060 --> 02:27:14,790
purify stagnant pond water for the gold

3221
02:27:20,210 --> 02:27:17,070
standard in water filters get a big

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02:27:23,060 --> 02:27:20,220
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3223
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and all GCN listeners get 5 percent off

3224
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:25,920
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3225
02:27:33,200 --> 02:27:27,930
call one eight seven seven nine nine

3226
02:27:35,210 --> 02:27:33,210
burking that's 877 99 ber k ey big

3227
02:27:38,780 --> 02:27:35,220
berkey water filters for the love of

3228
02:27:41,030 --> 02:27:38,790
clean water a little over a year ago i

3229
02:27:42,950 --> 02:27:41,040
began to do a lot of research into why

3230
02:27:44,570 --> 02:27:42,960
even if i had a pretty good sized meal

3231
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:44,580
that I was still starving and my

3232
02:27:48,860 --> 02:27:46,530
research led me to a well known fact

3233
02:27:50,600 --> 02:27:48,870
that most of the soils that we grow our

3234
02:27:52,280 --> 02:27:50,610
crops on here in the United States and

3235
02:27:54,830 --> 02:27:52,290
across the industrialized world are

3236
02:27:56,870 --> 02:27:54,840
almost completely depleted of almost all

3237
02:27:59,301 --> 02:27:56,880
of the key minerals and trace elements

3238
02:28:01,430 --> 02:27:59,311
that our bodies need to rebuild

3239
02:28:03,680 --> 02:28:01,440
themselves fight off cancer and be

3240
02:28:05,960 --> 02:28:03,690
healthy I then searched out the best

3241
02:28:08,841 --> 02:28:05,970
vitamin and mineral company out there

3242
02:28:10,790 --> 02:28:08,851
and discovered youngevity the youngevity

3243
02:28:12,801 --> 02:28:10,800
products are designed to give you the

3244
02:28:14,870 --> 02:28:12,811
real nutrition you need and once you've

3245
02:28:16,659 --> 02:28:14,880
got that you don't have to eat as much

3246
02:28:20,389 --> 02:28:16,669
to be satisfied

3247
02:28:22,489 --> 02:28:20,399
37 pounds in two months simply getting

3248
02:28:23,719 --> 02:28:22,499
the vitamins and minerals I need and

3249
02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:23,729
check it out for yourself

3250
02:28:28,399 --> 02:28:25,770
it's incredible go to Mpho wars team

3251
02:28:30,769 --> 02:28:28,409
comm today and order your first canister

3252
02:28:33,079 --> 02:28:30,779
a beyond tangy tangerine complete

3253
02:28:41,959 --> 02:28:33,089
multivitamin mineral complex dietary

3254
02:28:44,300 --> 02:28:41,969
supplement that's Infowars team Tom hi

3255
02:28:47,389 --> 02:28:44,310
this is nuclear physicist lecturers and

3256
02:28:51,409 --> 02:28:47,399
Friedman you are listening to the

3257
02:28:58,219 --> 02:28:51,419
barricades the gold standard paranormal

3258
02:29:00,379 --> 02:28:58,229
radio we have one more segment with

3259
02:29:03,139 --> 02:29:00,389
Phyllis called e of fate magazine and

3260
02:29:04,879 --> 02:29:03,149
UFO historian and researcher Jerome

3261
02:29:08,389 --> 02:29:04,889
Clark who used to work for fate and

3262
02:29:11,929 --> 02:29:08,399
still writes for them and that question

3263
02:29:15,229 --> 02:29:11,939
I asked of Jerry changes to paranormal

3264
02:29:17,479 --> 02:29:15,239
and you Falacci coalfields to make it

3265
02:29:19,909 --> 02:29:17,489
possible for more serious inquiry what

3266
02:29:21,709 --> 02:29:19,919
do you think fellas well I think the

3267
02:29:23,899 --> 02:29:21,719
government has something to do with it

3268
02:29:27,979 --> 02:29:23,909
too no matter how many times you know

3269
02:29:28,879 --> 02:29:27,989
you you have evidence of a strange

3270
02:29:31,879 --> 02:29:28,889
experience

3271
02:29:35,510 --> 02:29:31,889
ufology I really think the government is

3272
02:29:38,359 --> 02:29:35,520
putting a kibosh on information out they

3273
02:29:40,939 --> 02:29:38,369
visit and they deny it and pretend it

3274
02:29:44,679 --> 02:29:40,949
doesn't exist so I think they're

3275
02:29:47,719 --> 02:29:44,689
complicit and keeping the shutters down

3276
02:29:49,249 --> 02:29:47,729
well then you probably have to do it for

3277
02:29:51,769 --> 02:29:49,259
them kicking and screaming they'd have

3278
02:29:55,189 --> 02:29:51,779
to be forced to confront the issue would

3279
02:29:56,809 --> 02:29:55,199
that be possible I think if a UFO landed

3280
02:29:59,179 --> 02:29:56,819
on the White House they'd still deny it

3281
02:30:02,239 --> 02:29:59,189
happened well with this president it's

3282
02:30:05,409 --> 02:30:02,249
so polarized you know if Obama said

3283
02:30:07,969 --> 02:30:05,419
tomorrow we're being visited by ET

3284
02:30:11,059 --> 02:30:07,979
FoxNews would say he's making it up to

3285
02:30:15,409 --> 02:30:11,069
hide the truth about Benghazi exactly

3286
02:30:17,709 --> 02:30:15,419
yeah if squatter walks out the spaceship

3287
02:30:20,209 --> 02:30:17,719
you know they would still still deny it

3288
02:30:21,769 --> 02:30:20,219
did anyone ever notice here if you look

3289
02:30:22,579 --> 02:30:21,779
at the final scene of The Day the Earth

3290
02:30:24,979 --> 02:30:22,589
Stood Still

3291
02:30:27,079 --> 02:30:24,989
the original 1951 version where the UFO

3292
02:30:29,540 --> 02:30:27,089
is taking off the spaceship is taking

3293
02:30:31,940 --> 02:30:29,550
off if you look at that and you

3294
02:30:34,340 --> 02:30:31,950
look at some of the UFO illustrations

3295
02:30:35,870 --> 02:30:34,350
from Howard manager one of the UFO

3296
02:30:40,639 --> 02:30:35,880
contactee that's where he got it from

3297
02:30:43,130 --> 02:30:40,649
not surprised cool I exposed it right

3298
02:30:45,260 --> 02:30:43,140
here there it is it's all exposed I know

3299
02:30:46,790 --> 02:30:45,270
everything now you learn something new

3300
02:30:49,219 --> 02:30:46,800
every day and this is the kind of

3301
02:30:51,889 --> 02:30:49,229
knowledge that having received this

3302
02:30:55,099 --> 02:30:51,899
information it has no value whatsoever

3303
02:30:57,440 --> 02:30:55,109
I don't think most people even know who

3304
02:31:01,099 --> 02:30:57,450
Howard mentioned was anymore but in the

3305
02:31:04,010 --> 02:31:01,109
1950s even in the 1960s he was like the

3306
02:31:06,770 --> 02:31:04,020
East Coast version of Georgia Tann he

3307
02:31:09,800 --> 02:31:06,780
had the nickname of the Jersey Adamski

3308
02:31:12,349 --> 02:31:09,810
and he was a scienter in Highbridge New

3309
02:31:16,190 --> 02:31:12,359
Jersey and I'll tell you story quickly

3310
02:31:19,160 --> 02:31:16,200
about Menzer so Jim Mosley late Jim

3311
02:31:21,710 --> 02:31:19,170
Mosley editor of saucer news then and

3312
02:31:24,200 --> 02:31:21,720
saucer smear later we meet Howard

3313
02:31:26,480 --> 02:31:24,210
manager in this diner just across the

3314
02:31:29,210 --> 02:31:26,490
street from saucer news office at 303

3315
02:31:31,639 --> 02:31:29,220
Fifth Avenue New York and man drew says

3316
02:31:33,170 --> 02:31:31,649
you know I think that maybe I was the

3317
02:31:37,700 --> 02:31:33,180
victim of some kind of government

3318
02:31:41,240 --> 02:31:37,710
experiment so he said yeah I remember

3319
02:31:43,490 --> 02:31:41,250
that he was peddling that story and

3320
02:31:48,349 --> 02:31:43,500
later here's my suspicion wasn't he

3321
02:31:50,809 --> 02:31:48,359
gotten in so deep with this complex that

3322
02:31:53,330 --> 02:31:50,819
he was pulling off that he wanted to get

3323
02:31:55,760 --> 02:31:53,340
out of it without ever having to

3324
02:31:58,010 --> 02:31:55,770
actually confess that he'd made it all

3325
02:32:00,290 --> 02:31:58,020
up and taken all these phony photographs

3326
02:32:02,059 --> 02:32:00,300
that's what I think that was about so

3327
02:32:05,030 --> 02:32:02,069
basically here this was his excuse

3328
02:32:07,790 --> 02:32:05,040
create a news story to divert attention

3329
02:32:09,320 --> 02:32:07,800
from the old story make him a victim

3330
02:32:12,440 --> 02:32:09,330
instead of a liar

3331
02:32:14,330 --> 02:32:12,450
all right of course that's a theory also

3332
02:32:16,370 --> 02:32:14,340
some of voiced about some of the early

3333
02:32:19,070 --> 02:32:16,380
contactees that they were involved in

3334
02:32:23,270 --> 02:32:19,080
some kind of government experiment Orfeo

3335
02:32:25,160 --> 02:32:23,280
Angelou she was another one but you

3336
02:32:26,870 --> 02:32:25,170
heard that that's where you go so

3337
02:32:29,450 --> 02:32:26,880
speaking of where we're gonna go Phyllis

3338
02:32:32,450 --> 02:32:29,460
called e we have maybe six seven minutes

3339
02:32:35,240 --> 02:32:32,460
left with this episode what are the

3340
02:32:40,460 --> 02:32:35,250
future ideas to have in mind for fate

3341
02:32:42,650 --> 02:32:40,470
magazine well we'll see what what fate

3342
02:32:43,030 --> 02:32:42,660
has to say next issue we're going to

3343
02:32:47,140 --> 02:32:43,040
have

3344
02:32:51,310 --> 02:32:47,150
about is about ETS and UFOs Jerry he

3345
02:32:54,850 --> 02:32:51,320
better command people who claim to have

3346
02:32:57,130 --> 02:32:54,860
experience with contacting ETS and and

3347
02:33:00,220 --> 02:32:57,140
you know personal experiences so that

3348
02:33:02,590 --> 02:33:00,230
should be a lot of fun then create some

3349
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:02,600
controversy then the next issue after

3350
02:33:08,950 --> 02:33:06,640
that is about animal communication

3351
02:33:14,860 --> 02:33:08,960
telepathic communication with dolphins

3352
02:33:19,450 --> 02:33:14,870
and and other non non human beings and

3353
02:33:23,250 --> 02:33:19,460
after that it's going to be Sasquatch so

3354
02:33:25,840 --> 02:33:23,260
we have some interesting topics to cover

3355
02:33:26,440 --> 02:33:25,850
so like I said fate kind of writes

3356
02:33:29,680 --> 02:33:26,450
itself

3357
02:33:31,990 --> 02:33:29,690
it's better send me a book so I can make

3358
02:33:36,310 --> 02:33:32,000
you something for the next column yes

3359
02:33:37,780 --> 02:33:36,320
yes I have some okay so good ideas all

3360
02:33:40,720 --> 02:33:37,790
right so we're not going to know what

3361
02:33:42,970 --> 02:33:40,730
Jerome Clark's gonna review at the fade

3362
02:33:45,370 --> 02:33:42,980
magazine until we look at the issue

3363
02:33:48,370 --> 02:33:45,380
until he sends the books of course as we

3364
02:33:51,610 --> 02:33:48,380
mentioned before in the issue that I

3365
02:33:53,200 --> 02:33:51,620
have here which is July August 2013 he's

3366
02:33:57,730 --> 02:33:53,210
reviewing those books about Palmer and

3367
02:34:02,560 --> 02:33:57,740
shaver so that's what he was doing then

3368
02:34:04,960 --> 02:34:02,570
if you had the money and the power

3369
02:34:08,080 --> 02:34:04,970
Phyllis called me to change something in

3370
02:34:10,750 --> 02:34:08,090
fate magazine to get a wider audience or

3371
02:34:15,040 --> 02:34:10,760
just to change it what would you do get

3372
02:34:18,520 --> 02:34:15,050
better paper okay okay you you're

3373
02:34:22,210 --> 02:34:18,530
thinking content of course we have got

3374
02:34:23,980 --> 02:34:22,220
stacks and stacks of submissions article

3375
02:34:27,490 --> 02:34:23,990
submissions that are just absolutely

3376
02:34:29,710 --> 02:34:27,500
fascinating some are our same old sable

3377
02:34:34,320 --> 02:34:29,720
I mean how many so many ghosts have you

3378
02:34:38,230 --> 02:34:34,330
seen so we're looking for more timely

3379
02:34:41,830 --> 02:34:38,240
information and with a little bored meat

3380
02:34:45,640 --> 02:34:41,840
to them so the impression I get when I

3381
02:34:47,980 --> 02:34:45,650
look at fate magazine is its 1955 and

3382
02:34:49,960 --> 02:34:47,990
I'm sitting in at the editorial meeting

3383
02:34:52,600 --> 02:34:49,970
and you're looking at the stories of the

3384
02:34:55,120 --> 02:34:52,610
things that are happening the UFOs the

3385
02:34:56,439 --> 02:34:55,130
ghosts the cryptozoology the monster on

3386
02:34:59,939 --> 02:34:56,449
the beach

3387
02:35:04,479 --> 02:34:59,949
all this hasn't changed that much really

3388
02:35:06,849 --> 02:35:04,489
no not really but the readers claim

3389
02:35:08,829 --> 02:35:06,859
that's what they want they get mad if we

3390
02:35:10,630 --> 02:35:08,839
have all UFOs if we have all our

3391
02:35:13,719 --> 02:35:10,640
monsters in an issue they like the

3392
02:35:15,279 --> 02:35:13,729
variety like Jerry was talking about if

3393
02:35:18,219 --> 02:35:15,289
they might not want to read everything

3394
02:35:19,899 --> 02:35:18,229
in the in the issue but there might be a

3395
02:35:23,739 --> 02:35:19,909
couple three four articles that they're

3396
02:35:26,510 --> 02:35:23,749
fascinated by Jerry Clark what are you

3397
02:35:27,840 --> 02:35:26,520
up to these days

3398
02:35:30,459 --> 02:35:27,850
[Music]

3399
02:35:32,469 --> 02:35:30,469
pursuing other interests you know I have

3400
02:35:34,420 --> 02:35:32,479
a lot of interests and I basically

3401
02:35:36,369 --> 02:35:34,430
decided that I'm probably not gonna

3402
02:35:38,619 --> 02:35:36,379
write any more books as I've said

3403
02:35:41,800 --> 02:35:38,629
everything I wanted to say my last book

3404
02:35:43,420 --> 02:35:41,810
unexplained came out in 2012 and I'm

3405
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:43,430
very pleased with that book in it

3406
02:35:51,099 --> 02:35:45,770
there's a lot of good stuff in it but I

3407
02:35:54,249 --> 02:35:51,109
think that it pretty much says lifetime

3408
02:35:58,449 --> 02:35:54,259
researching and thinking and you know I

3409
02:36:00,029 --> 02:35:58,459
still you know monitor things but I'm

3410
02:36:03,420 --> 02:36:00,039
not really involved in any particular

3411
02:36:07,149 --> 02:36:03,430
project related to anomalies these days

3412
02:36:09,279 --> 02:36:07,159
just doing some reviewing and the

3413
02:36:11,649 --> 02:36:09,289
occasional essay I wrote a blistering

3414
02:36:16,989 --> 02:36:11,659
piece on John keel for fourteen times

3415
02:36:19,989 --> 02:36:16,999
late last year quite a response and the

3416
02:36:22,329 --> 02:36:19,999
miss during yeah I just sort of stirring

3417
02:36:32,559 --> 02:36:22,339
the pot here and there how blistering

3418
02:36:33,219 --> 02:36:32,569
how so oh it was illogical equivalent of

3419
02:36:41,949 --> 02:36:33,229
Glenn Beck

3420
02:36:45,309 --> 02:36:41,959
oh that really captain about why you

3421
02:36:48,010 --> 02:36:45,319
know emotionally unstable and factually

3422
02:36:49,539 --> 02:36:48,020
unreliable and so on you know nobody

3423
02:36:52,889 --> 02:36:49,549
could challenge any of the facts but

3424
02:36:56,079 --> 02:36:52,899
they still got mad so I like to do that

3425
02:36:58,889 --> 02:36:56,089
all that sounds like having a good time

3426
02:37:01,510 --> 02:36:58,899
yes indeed Phyllis called a people who

3427
02:37:04,029 --> 02:37:01,520
want to learn more about fate magazine

3428
02:37:06,309 --> 02:37:04,039
this is your chance thirty forty seconds

3429
02:37:09,050 --> 02:37:06,319
where you can sell the product visit our

3430
02:37:12,620 --> 02:37:09,060
website fate vague calm and request

3431
02:37:14,950 --> 02:37:12,630
freee issue let us know what you want to

3432
02:37:16,609 --> 02:37:14,960
see in the magazine and we'll

3433
02:37:18,620 --> 02:37:16,619
accommodate you

3434
02:37:22,399 --> 02:37:18,630
it's your magazine it's the readers

3435
02:37:26,229 --> 02:37:22,409
magazine I consider myself a steward and

3436
02:37:30,559 --> 02:37:26,239
this magazine has been going on since

3437
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:30,569
1948 and maybe in 2048 is still going to

3438
02:37:35,660 --> 02:37:32,010
be around to celebrate its 100th

3439
02:37:38,750 --> 02:37:35,670
anniversary who knows generations here

3440
02:37:40,760 --> 02:37:38,760
right faith mag com that's fate mag comm

3441
02:37:43,849 --> 02:37:40,770
you can find us by the way in all sorts

3442
02:37:45,710 --> 02:37:43,859
of places really on Twitter you look at

3443
02:37:48,679 --> 02:37:45,720
the power cast look for the power cast

3444
02:37:51,260 --> 02:37:48,689
on Twitter send us a tweet and follow us

3445
02:37:54,639 --> 02:37:51,270
and maybe we'll follow you we're also on

3446
02:37:57,380 --> 02:37:54,649
Facebook there is an official power cast

3447
02:37:59,990 --> 02:37:57,390
fan club on Facebook in fact there are

3448
02:38:02,170 --> 02:38:00,000
two of them and someday we'll figure out

3449
02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:02,180
how you make them one well unfortunately

3450
02:38:06,500 --> 02:38:04,890
Facebook doesn't make it easy to figure

3451
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:06,510
out such things they just want to mine

3452
02:38:12,109 --> 02:38:09,050
your data and do lots of wacky things

3453
02:38:14,719 --> 02:38:12,119
our own Chris O'Brien has his own

3454
02:38:17,500 --> 02:38:14,729
website it's called our strange planet

3455
02:38:20,479 --> 02:38:17,510
com that's our strange planet calm and

3456
02:38:23,000 --> 02:38:20,489
if you go there you can learn all about

3457
02:38:26,030 --> 02:38:23,010
his new book stalking the herd if you

3458
02:38:28,490 --> 02:38:26,040
buy it from his website he will

3459
02:38:32,149 --> 02:38:28,500
autograph it for you that doesn't happen

3460
02:38:35,179 --> 02:38:32,159
with Amazon okay that's interesting buy

3461
02:38:37,219 --> 02:38:35,189
a copy there in any case Jerry Clark

3462
02:38:39,670 --> 02:38:37,229
Phyllis called II thank you both for

3463
02:38:50,639 --> 02:38:39,680
joining us on the power cast thank you

3464
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the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3465
02:39:00,059 --> 02:38:57,199
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

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presentation of making the impossible